Ferrari LaFerrari - the next Special Limited Series

The Porsche was launched less than a year after the Enzo, IIRC, so I´d say that they were contemporary, or almost. Even the prototype of the Porsche was presented 2 or 3 years before the Enzo.

The others, well, yes, they were built in smaller numbers, but I think that they aimed at the same niche of the market.

 

The Enzo didnt create the market. There has always been hypercars. The Bugatti EB110, The XJ220, The McF1, The 959..
Plus the CGT was shown at first in 2000, way before the Enzo. So it is not true to say the Enzo had the market for itself or created it.

 

We may be splitting hairs but as I remember, at the time the Enzo was perceived by buyers and small boys in an entirely different light.

Porsche and Ferrari have always staked out different niches in the market. The Carrera GT blurred the Porsche brand image a bit but still had a percieved "practical" vibe the Enzo never did.

By production I mean cars that have a semblance of usability. Without dealer support cars like the Pag spend even more time off the road than your usual exotic.

 

Well, that´s something very subjective.

I think it was "only" another one of the GTO>F40>F50 saga, and as someone said above, there were already another options before like the EB110, 959, XJ220 and a long etcetera.

 

you don't think the Enzo's performance was notable for it's time? I think it was and I think it had a good resounding effect for Ferrari.

 

Ferrari certainly cares about ring times, seemingly pointless metrics, and beating the P1 and 918 in them.

You see, while those metrics have no effect on the sales of the LF, they do have an effect on the brand perception, and that is extremely important. Why do they have an effect on the brand? Because of **** like this thread and a bunch of pointless magazines and websites that cater to the average person who can't afford them.

Ferrari is able to sell cars not only because they are great cars, but because people who can't afford them admire them and lust after them. This exclusiveness and elite-ness are what drive a ton of sales. The majority of buyers are in fact not enthusiasts and there are a ton of people who buy them because 'its a Ferrari.' Who is responsible for the 'its a Ferrari, so it must be amazing' idea? The general public who can't afford them and never will. The general public, whose opinions are based on Internet babble and less than scientific -- and that's putting it lightly -- comparisons that run rampant and are taken as gispel by people the world over.

You don't want millions of regular people to start saying 'it's a McLaren.' Don't underestimate the effect non-buyers have on buyers. I think we can all agree that there are a ton of people who just want it because of what it is and what it stands for in the eyes of the masses. It's like one of the most important things in the world of luxury goods.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RK2rRjlCo

 

That's a new way to define production cars...

 

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds after all.


You're right. Production was the wrong word.
What I was trying to say was more along the lines of a company with proven financial stability and adequate post purchase support.

 

And, may I ask, why this is your opinion?

 

good post!

 

+1

 

+3

Ferrari being lost at sea in F1 and talk of Alonso leaving for Red Bull isn't helping either.

 

Dear all,

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For an individual whose height is 184cm do you recommend a fixed seat angle size of 27° or 32°?

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The one off story wasn't all BS after all...

Video: LaFerrari design secrets uncovered Car Video | Autocar

 

total disagree. buyers of p1, 918, LF do not factor in the few seconds of ring time differences in their purchase decisions. that's absolute nonsense. who gives a rats ass about a few seconds in a 7min+ lap time.

 

Indeed! Who cares?!

 

Simply not true. Ferrari supply is so much less than demand that sales are not affected if they don't do as well in F1 one year or if they don't post the best, or any, N'ring times. Enough people will not care and will actually buy the product that there will be no excess inventory. Indeed, the products command a premium.

Same for merchandise. The sales are not driven by N'ring times, and as long as Ferrari is in the top few finishers in F1, its merchandise and affiliate sales only continue to grow.

The few fair-weather fans who will desert the marque are an insignificant number, will be more than replaced by new fans, and the current number of loyal fans more than outstrip supply as it is.

Ferrari's sales need to be affected for your statements to be true. They haven't been. And they won't be.

Unless you have marketing data to refute this, you are spewing nonsense.

 

The evidence of their importance is given by the fact that Ferrari goes out of their way to mention it on the displays at the auto shows. How much more evidence do you need? 0-60. 0-300. Top speed. How many owners have ever or will ever do a 0-300 run, let alone reach top speed? They mention these things because they know that's the useless crap that gets talked about the most. Hell, they named their car (16M) after something as dumb as the 16th Constructor win. Has anyone ever celebrated the number 16 other than a teenage girl?

Imagine what sales of the GTR would have been like if it didn't post such fast lap times. What does the GTR have going for it without launch control and lap times? Every car manufacturer, Ferrari included, needs to play to the general public just as much as the buyers in order to sell cars. Falling out of favor with either is very detrimental to the brand and future sales.

It's laughable to think there is more demand than supply for Ferraris. Ferrari sells a paltry 7,000 car per year world wide. In the US alone there are over 1M households with a net worth of over $5M. Over a 5 year period they'd only have like a 1% market penetration to that group of people, and that includes people who made multiple purchases. Supply limited my ass. They sell as many cars as the possibly can. If 100K people walked into dealers today and placed orders, you can be damn sure they'd take deposits, issue debt, and break ground tomorrow on their new factory.

And while one bad season or lap time wouldn't hurt them, you can bet your ass that sales would plummet if they lost for the next 10 years and their road cars lost ever comparison test. You have to start somewhere, and getting beat by the P1 and 12C are a good start, especially when you consider than Porsche has a mid-engine car coming out and McLaren has the 12C -- both in the same class as Ferraris bread and butter car.

The general public's opinion of the cars/brand is very important. Everyone thinking a Ferrari was 2nd/3rd best would be just as bad as Ferrari starting a campaign to target LBGT buyer or on the O network.

 

I have had mojitos less muddled than your thinking. The little factoids you pull together to support your theories, unfortunately, don't support your theories. You need to read up on branding and brand loyalty.

Honda needed to sell cars at deep discounts to gain market share. Should Ferrari do so as well?

Honda sells on the basis of fuel economy. Ferrari is now going hybrid. Maybe it's because they need to gain market share?

Think it over.

 

Are you kidding me? You telling me people won't be but hurt if the 458 Scud ends up slower than the 12C? Don't underestimate just how important seemingly irrelevant metrics are to people. There are a heck of a lot of people who can't stand having the 2nd best.

Those cars -- P!, LF, 918 -- are an extension of their respective brand. They are halo cars that define the brand and what help them sell all their other cars and products. The McLaren F1 is the reason the 12C is even able to exist.

Having the best car, no matter how absurd the measurements are, goes a long way. How else can you explain this retarded concept of heritage?

 

Heritage? Lol! Heritage has nothing to do with N'ring timings. It is about a story that people want to feel connected to.

N'ring timings are just market speak. As a test of a car's performance, all other things being equal, it might show some strengths over another car. Usually it's the driver.

Ferrari buyers, 99 times out of a hundred, really don't give a crap. It's a roadcar from a company with a glorious F1 heritage. It is expensive. It is generally gorgeous. They are buying it to say they have the money to harness all that, not Ring or Monza or Silverstone timings.

Seriously, go read up on consumer psychology. Better yet, conduct an impartial, statistically valid survey of Ferrari owners and qualified prospective buyers using a large enough sample.

 

You do realize that Ferrari has a churn rate, right? An inevitable one in fact -- age.

You fail to connect the dots.

If Ferraris started making inferior products and always losing races, the public's opinion of Ferrari would suffer and become less desirable compared to, say, McLaren or whoever. Because people don't live forever, there must constantly be new buyers to replace the old ones that die out. Because the brand is now seen as 2nd best, the new buyers flock to what is now considered the best since that is the natural instinct. They may not know anything about the brands initially, but they will have heard in general the X brand cars is the car to own. It's the best.

McLaren plans to sell 1500 cars in 2013. It didn't exist a couple years ago, so those 1500 customers must have came from somewhere, and I don't think it was population growth. Now, of course there is going to be overlap in the exotic car market, with people buying multiple cars and brands. That said, there are a lot of people who owned Ferraris and think the 12C is amazing. It's subjective whether it's a better car than the 458, but it's only their first car and it is really really good. That doesn't mean Ferrari sales can't increase the next year even with new competition, but it means that maybe they would have gone up even more without it.

You cannot make inferior products and expect to stay on top forever. What happens if Ferrari starts losing every comparison in future models, and keep losing in F1? The magazines are read and the races watched predominantly by average people who aren't buyers. They will in fact ultimately determined the power of the brand, which will then go on to have an effect on where new customers look.

All exotic cars are phenomenal in every respect, and anyone in the world would be happen with any of them. That said, it's a very high-end product and it very well could be those seemingly small, irrelevant metrics which could make all the difference in overall perception.

 

James May?s solution to the car companies? obsession with the Nurburgring. - Imgur