Anyone service their own 360?

My next road car will be a 360 and i'm a DIY kind of guy with my Porsche road and race cars, have a lift and assortment of tools needed to do most things on it. Are there special tools necessary for servicing a 360? The timing belt service seems to be a big one, how about that for instance? How about electronics, is that dealer only (code reader, etc.)?

This is a great forum for people like me about to enter into F-World!

Thanks!

 

Haven't done timing belt, don't intend to do clutch. A lift is VERY handy but if you can do a Boxster you can do the 360. Access hatch is just like the Boxster.

Compared to Porsches they are easier to work on. Electronics are modular. Some subsystems like ABS, AC and F1 need the Leonardo or SD2 to indicate where to look. The wiring diagram is your best friend.

Otherwise its easy to do your own work. I like it. If you've replaced a breather assembly on the Boxster that's about as bad as it's going to get for general things. You probably have all the tools you need.

Advice is don't buy the car expecting the ownership experience to be cheap. Its not. Parts prices are twice to three times Porsche prices for pretty much everything. I like to say.. add a zero. If doing your own work on the car is going to be what makes this car affordable for you, stick with Porsches. I know its not what you asked for.. but I thought I'd throw this in.. My car had been half-@$$ repaired before I bought it by people who really couldn't afford it. Just a warning..

 

I appreciate what you are saying but i'm not looking to be "cheap", I just get gratification from doing the work myself when possible. I race a 911, $25K a year is a "cheap" year... I think I can handle 360 maintenance costs.

Again, thank you for the response, I take it that I will be able to handle most maintenance.

 

Hi Gary,

I am glad this thread came up. I have the same thought process as you. I am not afraid of any job. I have done engine rebuilds and lots of difficult work on other cars. I am also in the market for a 360, and plan on doing the belt service and camshaft variators if necessary on whatever car I buy myself. I am not scared to do a clutch job either ( manual of course, F1 clutch required the scan tool for settings ). I feel like the DIY maintenance savings is exactly what makes the 360 affordable to me.

Maybe when we both get our cars we can do the timing belts together on them haha. Im in southcoast MA!

 

Just so long as we don't do the repairs half-@$$!

 

let me share with you about my story

my local ferrari dealer started selling ferraris just a few years ago when f430 came out.
so they didn't know anything about 360, thus when i went to their door asking for services they turned me down, citing no knowledge and responsbility, blah.

I am an armchair theorist. i.e. I pretty much know a lot about cars (and ferrari is just a car, however great it is) , but for practical purposes, it took me at least 2 hours to change oil for a regular car ( maybe 10 hours for 360). it might takes me 2 weeks(8 hours per day) for a timing belt replacement for that matter.

you got the idea where i come from.

so my solution is that, i made a friend of a 10 year experience mechanic, who never serviced ferraris, nonetheless a car enthusiast

I showed him the difference between ferrari and other makes and he did all the jobs with my direction.

so far so good and we so far replaced engine oil, transmission oil, timing belts, aux belts, and never used any ferrari-specific tool. you just have to improvise here and there and the results were good so far

you can just stick to the factory service manual and ask questions here on the forum and
i think you can service your own ferrari should time isn't a big concern.

code , for all practical purposes, is a factory thing, you can only get accurate readings by a sd2,sd3, sdx, or a leonardo(which is 3rd party). last time i had an engine check light,my generic OBDII gave me just 1 code, and the sd3 gave me 2.

 

The 360 is doable for an DIY mechanically. Electrically, it's the most complex system that I have ever dealt with. To start off, there are plenty of ECUs sprinkled throughout the car and they all communicate through a "network". Mine has an F1 and I'm in the market for an SD2. The problem is I can't seem to locate one for purchase let alone borrowing one. vrSurgeon suggested a Lenoardo and I just might have to take that route.

 

$20K for the Leonardo from what I can find online... that's a lot of electronic work!

 

The cost of the currently available diagnostic tools aren't really practical for a DIY even the Leonardo versions IMO. Much can be done by a competent DIY utilizing regular tools and a garden variety code reader . Much can also be screwed up however if attention to detail is not exercised, from something as "simple" as an oil change..

 

While labor rates for Ferrari mechanics are higher than regular foreign or domestic repair shops, I don't think the savings in maintenance is from doing your own labor. As vrs said above, the real cost is the parts. They are usually 10x more expensive than anything you would expect. So simple things like timing belt service aren't expensive because the shop is charging you a lot. The belts, tensioners, cam seals, etc themselves are very expensive. (That said, $100/hr labor ain't peanuts either.)

 

Exactly, and I would rather "pay" myself $100 per hour doing something I enjoy in my nice AC/Heated shop!

 

As above. Many of the parts are specific to the 360 and are very expensive. Coming from Porsche repair and parts commonality with VW.. I imagine GaryR will be well versed in what parts interchange with others...

 

Yes, I agree. In general I would say that approximately 80% of the issues with the 360 can be handled with average tools (mechanically and electrically). It's the remaining 20% that's going to bite you hard if you're not financially prepared for it. I can give you examples of the 80% doable part that I've experienced recently. I managed to fix the alarm system for about $200.00. Got the replacement part from a bone yard. Ferraris' price for the part: $600.00. The A/C system was acting up last week. I was able to diagnose it with indications that the A/C ECU is bad. It cost $800.00 for used part. Ferraris' price: about $1800.00 I recharged the A/C. Cost: 1 can of R143a $10.00. Just two days ago, the CEL came on. Codes was P0300/0303/0304. It indicates that the engine is misfiring. I was able to read the codes and clear it with a $29 scan tool that I purchased 10 years ago. I think you get the idea.

 

I'm also thinking toward a 360 in the future but gave up DIY a half dozen years back...tiny garage now and lots of other stuff to do. I guess I'd best look long and hard and be prepared to pay the price.

 

Is there a list/spreadsheet somewhere with scheduled maintenance and approximate costs? I was thinking $10K +/- per year for the 5000 miles (max) I would be driving her if I had to have everything outsourced. Is that realistic?

 

It's better that you download the workshop manuals for free here and peruse it. You'll probably get a better idea as to how your DIY skillset will fit into an F-car ownership.

All Ferraris

 

Way too high !!! WAY TOO HIGH !!!

Annual is $1,000-$1,500 and every 3 years add $1,200 for belts. So that 3rd year is $2,500-$3,000. I budget for that 3rd year throughout the 3 years and put away $250/month for maintenance.

Now yes, you could break something and it could cost $10K or more and I am not including wear items likes brakes/tires in my $1.5K per year because you dont need those every year. Next year for me is my belts year AND I will be doing a clutch, which seems to go for about $4k and $6k if you need a flywheel, so my next year I am budgeting $8k for but that will be my most expensive year in a decade or more (unless I break something expensive, I am only quoting what is "normal" maintenance here).

And I am WAY over 5,000 miles a year, my 360 is my daily driver.

 

VRSurgeon made it sound a LOT more expensive than that! Thank you for the input Mike, I was afraid I would have to give up a race or two a year...

 

I do all of my own maintenance/repairs. The car is kinda complex but It's still just a car. Get yourself a FACTORY workshop manual and follow it.

 

Are these sufficient - All Ferraris

Thanks, sounds better with every new post!
Gary

 

$1,200 is not accurate for a proper belt job. Maybe paying someone to wrap a belt around your engine... but for $1,200 I doubt you'll get much more.

 

An invoice from a couple of months ago shows that my 360 belts were changed for 911,78€ which works out to $1,185 and this was at an authorized Ferrari dealership not far from the factory, not some independent garage. Typically labor is significantly higher in Italy plus everything, including a belt change, has a 21% IVA (VAT) tax included.

The parts aren't very expensive and the job isn't rocket science. I'd say twelve hundred bucks is about what it should cost.

 

Assuming the engine has to be dropped (does it?) that is about what it costs just for the R&R on a 911, not including any repairs!

 

Yes.

 

The parts for a factory recommended belt change (belts, bearings, seals, filters etc) in the US are around $1,400. Labor would be extra.