I did seriously evaluate the pros/cons of waiting for the 458 scud before placing my 2014 Italia order. Apart from the fact that I would be able to enjoy my coupe very shortly (within a few days at this point), while actual scud deliveries are at least a year out, I also found it against my nature to pay an extra $50k for 30-50 extra hp. It's hard to find any fault with the 150 extra hp of the F12 though, plus that screaming V12 is a dream I hope to fulfill after fulfilling my 458 one. Ok, I admit F12 looks are not as sexy as the 458 but they are still decent and acceptable. But that car would be a 9-12 month wait too.
100% agree. The sensation of performance is the point of a Ferrari, there are many much lower cost cars that can out perform any Ferrari. But none of them provide the same level of "sensation of performance".
It is not about the horsepower. Is more like cost per smile A stock 458 gave me much more smiles then a 1000 hp car. On the opposite end, a $50k Mustang GT500 offer 662 hp, $75 per hp
Yes it will be probably be YE 14 before the Scud 458 could be delivered. I love the F12. A reasonable next step. Best of luck.
Its not about hp increase, its about the sensation and experience the car delivers. If its anything like the difference between 430 and 430 scud , i think its 100 percent worth the price premium. After my ownership of f430 and scud , i havent found a single car that will replace the experience of scud. I eagerly await this new car and hope its raw and brutal as scud. Its more than what i want spend on a ferrari , but once you get a taste of lightweight variants gt3/scud/cs there is no going back.
Already one for sale in Ingolstadt, Germany: Ferrari 458 Italia SCUDERIA LT 10/2013 als Sportwagen/Coupé in Ingolstadt
Totally agree.. Ferrari is unique and well known for what produces and delivers. And they don't produce cars in my opinion They deliver dreams. This is why if we consider the car itself, it is very very expensive (and you can buy others, even faster and still cheaper)....but since they sell dreams and not cars... everything can be managed in a different way..And we have to pay for it. If the Scuderia would cost as the new Porsche Gt3...it would become simply a dream car. Now instead,the Scuderia is for most of us, "the DREAM CAR".. And Ferrari knows it very well. Porsche btw would like to make something similar with for example the new 991 Turbo S, increasing the cost of the car up to a step that now in Europe she costs as the Ferrari 458. They made a mistake in my opinion since the 458 will still be the DREAM, while the 991 Turbo, for the same price of the 458 will just be a GREAT car that you buy with your brain (more comfortable, daily drive, four wheels drive in winter and so on). So at the end, which are the parameters to understand if the price for each horse power is too big , reaonsable, or too low?
I have one 997Gt3 and use it regularly on the track. You are right but in my opinion is still too far..But btw, that is the closest example to put on the table when we want to compare the 458 to something else. Even EVO UK has released his first drive on the new 991GT3 and effectively they compared these two cars.
I agree. I think the 997GT3 is closer to the 458 in spirit than the McLaren. Don;t know about the 991GT3. Will check out the EVO piece.
After the price massacre of the 430 scuderias- I think the play is to wait on this car for the used market.
But then you won't have the latest and greatest mid engine ferrari! The performance of the 458 italia and the bad economy did the scud in as much as the overproduction. I am frequently wrong, but it's hard to imagine much more performance out of the next mid engine natural aspirated 8 (or 6 turbo) cylinder f car. The tranny can't shift any faster. AWD? Doubt it. Kers? Expensive. They can't take much weight out. So what's left? The f12 needs 12 cylinders to make 720hp.
There is still room for improvements in performance. The 458 successor will be V8 twin-turbo, 650+hp with flat torque curve and mid-range turbo punch.
Well, that sounds cool. I had not heard that before. What site can I look this up on? And for that matter, what are the stats on the upcoming 458 SS/scud?
The problem with the "speciale" variants is that the replacement model is typically the same $$$ or less AND it performs just as well. OK so the "feel" may be lacking some but then the overall "usability" goes up (a trade off). The Scud to the 458 is just the latest example of this conundrum. Remains to be seen exactly how far they take the new light weight 458 in terms of tech and performance, and how exclusive they make it. IF it remains low production (a la Stradale) then It might be OK to pay "all the Money". If not, well, then I agree it becomes a better second hand buy - unless, of course, losing $100K-$!50K in a few years means nothing to you (aka early buyers of new FF's). We will see, but as a previous buyer of new CS and Scud, I'm keeping my powder dry until I get a better sense of what's going to happen. Best.
I have been wondering about the same thing and questioning whether the upcoming special 458 will be quite as raw or as exclusive as the 430 Scuderia was, relative to the base F430. To speculate a bit, it is possible that the overall 458 run will be longer than the F430 run and that the special 458 would be a bridge to the 458 successor with a higher production and more daily driver capability. Why would the 458 run be longer? Possible needed development for an affordable KERS system or the dreaded turbo V8. Also as I am sure you know, the new 991GT3 is not quite as raw and is more of a daily driver than the 997GT3. Not that Ferrari follows Porsche but I'm just sayin' We will see and I am also keeping powder dry.
Actually in this part of the world, the 430 Scuderia mantains much better the value than the standard 430. So who bought the 430 Scud in the past not only enjoyed some stronger performances and probably a nicer car (by my point of view) but even protected a little better the residual value of their investment.I don't know what happens there sorry, and I don't want to be unkind. There is even another factor to consider in my opinion: the gap in performances between the 430 and the 458 is huge. But between the 458 and the 430 Scuderia is much more acceptable.And if this will happen even for the next two cars involved (458 Scud and successor of standard 458), this, I am sure will help to protect the residual value of the incoming Scud . So, of course you spend more to buy one now compared to a standard 458, but you get more not only in terms of emotions and exclusivity but even in terms of residual value. At least this happened in Europe untill now from what I observed.
Recover? As in go up in value? Or just depreciate at a slower rate? It will keep sliding, although will almost definitely stay a little stronger than the CS, since it is a much better performing car and costs less to maintain. At least for the short term. In 40 years? Yeah, the CS may be worth more than the scud due to the production numbers.
Yes. The 430 Scuderia is really a performance bridge between the F430 and the 458. I would expect that the special 458 will also be a bridge to the eventual 458 replacement. The question is how much "rawness" will it have vs. "daily driver" appeal. If Ferrari continues in the tradition of the 360 CS and F430 Scuderia, it will be quite raw and appeal to the traditional buyers who want to have that kind of feel. If however they back off of that raw feel somewhat and produce more of them, it would have a broader appeal and perhaps lengthen the 458 model run pending its replacement. I frankly don't know what they will do but from what I've seen of the photos provided here, it looks like the special 458 will continue in the tradition of the CS and Scuderia.
I just had some free time and I tried to figure out, how fast this car could be in the tracks around the world, considering how fast is already the well proven standard 458. I studied on a famous webpage (I don't know if I can put the link), all the reported lap times in almost all the tracks the 458 was tested around the world. Many of these circuits have a lap time between 1:30 sec. and 1:15sec and I simply supposed (conservatively) a better lap time of about "1" second on each of these tracks. Just some time I detracted 1,2-1,3 seconds and in case of the Nurburgring I detracted just 5 seconds. We all know that much better tires, more power, lighter car, better downforce and suspensions rigging could make a much better saving on each of these tracks. But I was conservative. Here my results on the basis of 28 circuits (I didn't consider the wet circuit tests): the car could be 14 times 1st, 2 times 2th and 6 times 3th. So just considering these 22 results we could say that on 22 tracks (on a total of 28 considered) the Scud could be always in the first 3 postions. Or in other words one of the 3 fastest cars on that specific circuit . Then we have : 2 times 4th, 1 time 5th, 1 time 6th, 1 time 12th and 1 time 16th (Ring). I know, it is just a funny study, but the results could even be better than what I predict and even if not, it still seems to give some nice imputs to me . Doesn't it?
I just noticed that the flat-plane, 4.6 liter, normally aspirated v8 in the Porsche 918 is rated at 608hp...I was skeptical that the 458 scud would have +50hp on the regular 458, but if Porsche can get that level of power from a similar engine, then Ferrari can too...not to mention the macca is at 616hp (albeit turbo charged). So, maybe the 458 scud will be ~610hp...that plus ~200 pounds lighter would be fantastic! (The CS and Scud were both only +25hp on the 360 and 430 respectively)
