Just that the manufacturer's # of cycles spec is so low for tin-on-tin that it seems a little crazy to use on an automobile. For your example of being used inside a household appliance (washer) = no argument that you'd never exceed 10 unmates-mates, but easy to exceed that chasing Gremlins around a 355 . I know than the manufacturer's spec is probably uber-conservative, and that on some things a few tens of milliOhms resistance wouldn't matter, but not using something with better cycle life on the (expensive) Motronic ECUs just seems unwise to me -- JMO.
If someone needs a kit...then they should buy it. I don't need a kit. I also do not want the Gold connectors in "the kit." Ps...I also did not see SRI as a site sponsor. Other owners are probably rolling their eyes at that too. Jpt timers and the varying levels of crimp tools are not the intellectual property of anyone but AMP. Are oil changes intellectual property of FNA? Is reading the CEL only the right of Ferrari? Come on...this is a site for owners looking to know and understand their cars better. If I didn't want to do the work myself, I would send it to someone. I never knew that there was a secret underground crimp society...,now I'm LMAO
Put down the viagra and replace these horrible connectors with something off a snowmobile and be done with it. Bombardier did all the R&D you possibly need.
Thanks Steve......but .do you think Gold would allow more cycles? I see that commercially available connectors are tin...but w a very thin gold coating. Solid gold connectors do not exist.
The JPT reference that you posted quotes 10X more mating cycles for the gold-plated vs tin-plated (and better temp resistance): www.te.com/catalog/cinf/en/c/11557/1377?PID=31300&RQS=C~1^M~BYPN^TCPN~927771-6^RQPN~927771-6
Steve ...love that you always chime in. What would temp resistance mean? Does it mean that more resistance would develop as the temp goes up? More resistance on Tin than Gold as the temp goes up? Could the engine heat...especially at an o2 sensor ...make gold (w lower resistance) give a more accurate reading?
I should've maybe written "better tolerance to high temperature exposure" (not like electrical resistance). The higher temp spec for the gold-plated finish vs the tin-plated, I believe is just related to the greater inertness of the gold to oxidation. One of the "rules of thumb" that I ran into was that if a signal was less than 1 volt = good idea to use gold-plated terminals (so that would apply to O2 sensors).
So what would 400 f do to a tin connector vs gold connector? The o2 sensor junctions sit right infront of the muffler. I guess a gold /gold union might be a good idea here?...based on what you read?
Yawn. Wake us up when you have actual proof. Until then you are just bloviating. Show us the damage the kit caused. You are beginning to sound like a 9/11 truther. Lots of not air and nothing between the ears. Kai
If you wonder why this thread goes on and on it is because of comments like this: That is inaccurate, to say the least. Repeatedly I have said nothing about the kit not working. Just the opposite. I have said that IF you have contact problems due to low clamping force or corroded contacts, replacing the connectors would improve things. That does not exclude the SRI kit. I have also stated, with regard to possible (note use of the word POSSIBLE) damage, using mixed metals in contacts was like smoking. It might get you tomorrow, next week, next year, or you may never get cancer. I've been asked directly how long it might take to see a problem. I have answered that honestly by saying I don't know because it will depend on the operating environment. If you have water dripping on you ECU it probably won't take too long. Steve M pointed out that TE says gold has greater temperature resistance and 10x the cycles. Fine points, but that is with respect to Gold on gold compared to tin on tin. Gold on tin is worse that tin on tin according to all the test data I have seen, and again, that is the issue that we are stuck on, and the issue we SHOULD BE stuck on. It should also be noted that when TE talks about number of cycles they are referring to either A) how long it takes before the contact plating is warn through or B) how long before clamping pressure is reduced by some specified percentage. In either case, they are not talking about a number of cycles in the single digits, or even low double digits. Number of cycles should not even be a factor here. And why close the thread. You have something better to discuss? Want to talk about the NSA, IRS, Benghazi, Obama Care, the right, the left, the middle of the road? It's an interesting discussion about a technical issue. Nothing will come of it because everybody has already made up their mind, physics be damed. And the bottom line is that it you are reading this thread or posting to it, it's probably because you don't have anything better to do at the time. But, $1000 for the kit? I mean seriously, you can buy gold connectors in lots of 1000 for $0.22 each. Compare to Birdman's 308 fuse box kit for $150. God bless profit margin.
per the TE rep, that mating cycle is for gold on gold, not gold on tin. there are no mating cycle tests for gold on tin because it's not recommended.
I understand -- we were discussing the selection of tin-on-tin vs gold-on-gold in the design process.
Still havnt heard how long before failure. One would think with all these studies on socalled dissimilar metals in contacts that we could least have some kind of timeline. After all, if this was tested beyond refute, then what is the timeline? 5 years 10 years 25 years? If there is no timeline then what kind of scientific study was this?
delphi's opinion on this matter. http://delphi.com/connectors/assets/product_brochure/Plating.ppt Not sure why I bother posting these; it'll probably go over people's head like the info on jaguar's tsb, bmw's tsb, the f-16 study by hace, the amp and te studies. It's amazing how people can put on blinders when they choose to. Even with this mountain of evidence, people will still sit at their desk and demand "proof" that gold and tin is bad. LOL...
Gerry...let me try to help you with this....you will not see an answer about this. What would greatly help is just a clarification that you have only done the connections in the engine compartment.....is this correct? You have not done anything at the ECU? correct?
I wish they had more profile information on slide 19-20. Interesting results but not useful without showing what constituted the profiles.
I've no dog in this fight, but the PPT presentation that you posted also recommended only using tin-on-tin when the normal force is greater than 5N (page 23) -- would you say; therefore, that Bosch made a mistake using tin-on-tin for the Motronic ECU connectors?
Well we STILL don't if you ever drive your car and I've asked that question about what, 3 times now so obviously you don't 'cause you are worried about driving it. Easy to say your car is fine when it only sits in the garage. Once again very slowly now follow what I am saying Tim, my car had this patch work JPT connectors replaced where the supposed error was pointing to. My car, and believe me many many others, had this patch work done to only have the same problems arise again and again. Dave through everything at my car SYSTEMATICALLY just like you and FNA and Ferrari,Spa suggest. DID NOT WORK. The gold connector kit is worth its weight in gold (or should I say tin Tim) because it fixed my car, his car, that guy's car over there, this guy's car over here, etc. etc. etc. To all you folks looking at this thread with great amusement and maybe some serious concerns all the arguements are here. Read through them carefully and decide for yourself if this kit could solve many of your problems. The only dog I have in this fight is seeing happy Ferrari owners driving merrily and RELIABLY down the road. And ask yourself as Plugzit did who has the most to gain in seeing that our cars are not fixed properly. Steve
Gerry, do you have any dyno or performance numbers of your car. That would be objective. I know the ideal situation is to take numbers, do the modifications, and then retest. If you hadn't taken a baseline with your car, comparisons could still be made against cars without the modification. Just curious on the performance improvement.
Based on the amount of information I have on this specific subject matter (which is nil), I can honestly say that I have no clue. Unlike some people who can form a strong opinion or belief based on what they are told or by their seat of the pants gut feelings, i would require substantial evidence and documentation before i can form an opinion either way.
Yes ...Steve...I drive my cars. Is that good enough for you? I also work on my cars myself...do you? It sounds like you need to send yours to others, so I am seriously doubting your ability to truly follow this thread. Did you want to race or something???...because I'm sure your next question will be...."yeah, but you don't drive like I drive.." Why can't you just add to the discussion with relevant details instead of asking me if I drive my car? I had a pile of service records for my 512tr,but I found and solved problems that no other FNA mechanic had. I am also aware that my 512tr has the same crappy ECU that the 355 has....that is why I am learning this. Sounds like you are telling me that what fixed your car was the gold? It had nothing to do with systematically changing every single connection in your car? Did you do the kit install yourself, or did someone else do it for you? So I have asked YOU three questions....can't wait for YOUR response.
