Installing SRI Gold kit today - little help?

Pathetic is right.

Maybe it wasn't you but some anti gold kit folks have stated that we will damage our cars and that this crusade discrediting the GCK is kind of a public service to protect us from ourselves.

The naysayers have to prove that the kit doesn't work.

Saying it "may eventually perhaps" cause damage at some undetermined point in the future is a laughable statement.

That's like saying that we will all die, eventually (sticking with you guys human biology topic).


To summarize: all you have are some papers that say you shouldn't do gold/tin.

Based on that the GCK is crap, marketing hype, too expensive and shouldn't be used.

Got it.

Except, none of you guys have any evidence at all that the GCK is not doing what it's supposed to do but continue to bad mouth it.

Now that's pathetic.


Kai

 

As a tin hat wearer I resent that slur, sir! And I have no dog in this scrap. But I do proudly wear my tin whenever possible - short of a lightening storm. In fact, I have found that there are plenty of times wearing the hat is hazardous to my health due to its obvious conductivity. Unfortunately I cannot test the conductive differences of metals because I a lack the means to be able to afford a gold foil hat, would that I could. Alas, even a silver cover is beyond my budget so I will have to make the best of tin. I do use only the best and most recent tin I can to avoid oxidation issues. It is widely known that such matters will affect one's ability to extract universal knowledge from the aether.

In short, you need to stop bashing the tin hats. We deserve equal rights and should not be discriminated against for our choice in headwear.

Thank you and you may continue your squabbling now...

 

Kai, we don't have to prove anything. It's been pointed out, so many time that I have lost count, that mixed metal contacts have the potential to create damage. This is not new. Boaters have long used sacrificial anodes to protect various metal components on their boats. Due to the difference in electro chemical potential, the anode is consumed (corroded) before the metal that it is used to protect. In the case of mixing gold with tin, the tin becomes the sacrificial anode. That's it. End of story. Will this result in damage to you car? Today? Tomorrow? Next week? Next year? In 5 years? 10? 20? We can not answer that question because there are a lot of other variable involved. Maybe it never happens. But it's up to you to decide if you want to take the chance. And that is what the majority of opponents are saying. I.E., before you make a decision you should have all the information, pros and cons, available to you.

Now just for the heck of it I want to mention where I got into this fight. It was back on page 3 where ketel stated that he was getting codes, one of which indicated that the O2 sensor heater circuit was shorted. I suggested that perhaps before cutting his wires apart, he should check the resistance of the heater to see if indeed the O2 sensor was bad. I also suggested that if the sensor ckecked out OK then he should work back to the ECU looking for a short in the wires to the O2 heater. That was met with a response from DH:

In effect, after sorting through the BS, DH is saying that there is no point in checking the sensor and that the solution is to go ahead with the GCK install. Well, let me tell you that if you have an O2 heater short code in you car (I'm assuming you have reset the ECU and the code reappears) and the tech you bring it to says there is no point in checking the heater element in the sensor, which takes all of about 5 minutes, and the solution is cut you wiring harness apart and put on new connectors, run to your car and get the F out of there.

 

didimao- Are you freaking kidding me, an electron microscope? That's what you got? That's what the entire grit eating whatever needs to detect oxidation, fretting? Wow, LOL, you got nothing pal. These 2 ends were as clean as the day they were installed and performing perfectly. I nor anyone else gives a crap what an electron micrograph might show. The reality of the situation is that the connectors were performing perfectly. This guy's been through the wars and knows what he's doing. Not so sure about you though. Reality, it's an amazing concept.

 

That's a pathetic response (as usual).
Hello earth to didimao- aah, we're talking about a gold-tin connector not some stupid response to the human condition. But while we are on a thing about longevity I'll bet my car with the gold will perform much better, be more reliable, and cost way less to maintain over 100,000 mi. than your tin mobile, ya know assumming yours can make it to 100k (with or without an electron micrograph). Want to take that bet?

 

There are 29 pages of drivel here with very little technical content. What this thread really represents is grown men having a p!ssing match. I entered this thread because people who have never seen the gold kit continue to make false statements to discredit a respected fchat member from the safety of their keyboards. Unkind, rude, inappropriate, childish are adjectives that come to mind. I think it is long past time for real gold kit users to stop taking the bait. Nothing of substance exits in this thread. Any true statements made will be continually twisted and used out of context. There is no interest in truth here. The internet experts can talk among themselves and we will enjoy a long drive.

To the OP sorry for too much of my own OT contribution to your thread. If I can offer you any technical help feel free to pm me. I think yelcab is actually up your way and willing to help.

 

pretty crazy huh; imagine all the time and money these published researchers could have saved if instead of using expensive precision equipment to measure results, they used the tmans five senses method and just used their eyes….

 

Yes, I am willing to help. PM me if you need anything. I am able to understand electrons.

(I am just not willing to jump into the middle of this contest. Smiley faces all around !!!)

 

Please post a scan of the fretting behavior data for tin-on-gold from one of these references if you have it -- I'm not buying a book

This statement "tin on tin has a "natural" oxide which will form and deform with the contacts allowing it to maintain continuity" conflicts with AMP's data that shows tin-on-tin also suffers from fretting.

 

ok.. give me some time.

 

I don't believe nothing I hear and only half what I see.

Don't know about you guys, I'm going for a ride up the coast with my favorite girl, don't tell my wife

 

OK, don't "fret"!!!!!!

 

you're 100 percent correct; similar metals also suffers fretting but it's not as catastrophic as dissimilar metal fretting. I guess my wording is different from AMP's but I agree with their conclusions.
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additional reference..
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found this from another post....

Is this what you get for $1300? And a worry free car that is faster than anyone else?

Might I suggest that those that claim to disregard all facts are simply subvendors to this kit?
I am just trying to come up w a logical explanation as to why you personally attack others, just for posting evidence. Most of you don't even take the time to comment on the evidence. it seems like you simply read it, acknowledge that it is not what you want to read, then just say "but my car works." And again, why wouldn't your car work after you replace every single connection?
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NOT one of you even commented on my post from last night.....

I asked if Gold /gold would be the best choice for the o2 union.....yes, actual POTENTIAL support as to why it may be better here. the idea that gold may hold up to high heat in a low voltage circuit.

Instead, most of you focused on more personal attacks.

However....in this debate....even more bad data for gold is added. Come to think of it, this is exactly like the smoking debate.

 

Thanks for the text, but I'm trying to get a feel for how much more catastrophic the dissimilar case (gold-on-tin) is vs the tin-on-tin case -- do the figures referred to in the text that you posted convey anything about that? Every reference that I can find goes thru this same discussion scenario -- under fretting conditions, gold-on-tin becomes tin-on-tin (that doesn't work as well as real tin-on-tin), but never quantify it. I'm looking for an order-of-magnitude ballpark comparison -- e.g., gold-on-tin gives 90% of the life to failure as tin-on-tin under the same fretting conditions, gold-on-tin only has 1/100 the life of tin-on-tin under..., etc.. TIA.

 

ahh.. there was a diagram. let me see if i can find it.

 

I'll take some pictures of some Audi connections..male and female. From the factory..the company that's owns lambo, vw, Porsche, Ducati, Bentley and Bugatti. They will clearly show gold on tin connections. Anybody want to argue with a company like that, and their engineers? They and David Helms, just may know somthing you do not. Dispite what your research has showen.

That said...I'm not a fan of audi or vw products in general. But there wiring harnesses are of very high quality. How they route them and why they can't build a car with a sunroof that doesn't leak water is a whole other story.

Now..how do it post pics from an IPad? So I will know for tomorrow.

 

I have spent most of my 30-year working life dealing with electronic systems involving connectors. I started out on mainframe computers when they were the size of rooms and had thousands of connectors, all these years later working on various electronic systems including now some ECU systems for BMW as an approved BMW engineering design sub-contractor.

Based on this experience I would make the following points:

If all of the connectors on a 15-20 year old car are replaced, the chances of at least one of the originals being in a condition which causes a noticeable improvement after replacement is high. This accounts for the reports of improvement when fitting these kits. Its nothing to do with gold, tin or whatever. The improvement would be the same if originals were used. Part of the reason for this is the use of tin in the original connectors which (as stated in the connector manufacturers data) is actually unsuitable for an automotive environment (even though all manufacturers use tin connectors in part or all).

The drawbacks of mixing tin/gold are documented and I personally experienced issues with this mix many years ago on a particular product which had thousands of ICs with tin legs, inserted into gold sockets. We ended up liasing with AMP and some of their research papers were derived from the work they did at the time.
BUT I dont personally think that mixing gold and tin is going to be any worse than tin/tin in the context of the automotive applications we are discussing, over the lifetime they are required to work in the future.
Nevertheless if there is a choice between using the same metal and mixing, then the same should be used. After all, what is the reason not to? The use of the term "Gold Connector Kit" is marketing speak. From the technical point of view it should be a "Connector Kit" with the appropriate materials for each connector. I dont see any downside with this approach. As a concept the idea of a kit is great and replacing connectors on older cars is usually beneficial as has been proven.

By all means replace with gold/gold where possible as this is indisputably better than other combinations.

Another factor is that the importance of the crimp is equally critical as the mating connector itself. Crimping is a science. Its vital to use exactly the right tool for each type of connector and wire size. Even a crimp which visually looks OK might not be if the wrong tool is used, or used the wrong way. The most valuable drawer in my workshop contains around 40 crimp tools which are worth a fortune in total.
In fact most of the connector problems I have encountered over the years have been caused by bad crimps.
I have no idea how this is handled in these kits but not sure how one or two tools would be able to deal with the crimps on all connectors on a car. This might have been covered well in the kit somehow, I dont know. As connectors are very cheap I would assume most of the cost of the kits (I dont know how much they cost) is the crimp tools which would be fair enough.

 

Why would a car company really care? Think about that for a second. As long as the car lasts 7/70K miles.....why would they care.

So let's look at why this is over 30 pages long......the only relevant fact is that we CARE about our Ferraris and we want the best thing for them long term. Each of us wants to think their car is truly treasured and given the best attention.

Look at the SRI site....it claims...for this GCK...."fixing current issues and preventing future problems."

My opinion is that they got half of it right. That being, if you cut off every known connection in your car and recrimp it......well.....you can fix your current issue.

However, it is way to soon given this data that we can say..."prevent future problems." There has been no data to support this claim....only data to the contrary.

So again, why would Audi or any car company care? Dont they want failure after the warranty period? Aren't most of these CELs after Ferraris warranty period?

What I seek is the very best connections if I were to go through this ordeal.

 

Very good post, thanks for sharing. I've developed the same belief that the benefits are related to new connections and nothing to do with gold.

 

Dave quoted me $1578.71 for the kit but I have an F1 (maybe more connections?)

I don't think the price is out of line, doing the work (figuring out what's needed), being in business cost money.

My interest in this thread is one of technical accuracy. Do I think gold is the answer?, no, I don't. Do I think Dave provided value?, yes I do - at a minimum, he recognized these cars suffer from bad electrical connections.

I don't think he did anything wrong, good intentions and many have benefited even if the technical solution was not ideal.

 

You are right. Also, if someone doesn't know what they are doing, I would imagine they may need hours of help. My apologies if that came off the wrong way. For someone that already owns the tools and knows what they are doing, I was a bit shocked.

Does anyone know what the "Patent Pending" is all about?