Installing my new Diff

Kill you?? No way! "Don't shoot the messenger"

Without you I wouldn't know for sure what I did wrong.

I would love to just drive it in 3 gears but there are 2 problems with that. First, as I mentioned, my clutch will not release. That part I'm still confused about. But since I have to tear it all down again, I'll look at the clutch anyway. Secondly, I am borrowing a friends lift. He works at home as a mechanic so I can't take up his lift for a long time. Also, the car is stored on his property and he wants it gone. I can't blame him. It's been there for 4 months.

I will remove again this weekend and hopefully it will only take me about a week to resolve since it's just disassembly and reassembly. No measuring or testing.

Thank you so much for all your help Romano!!!!!!!! Hey, either your English is getting better or I'm getting better at reading it! I think your English IS getting better.

 

may be both ?

I hope that you see on my pictures what is wrong installed?

I´mnot 100 % sure that it is s, but I can not find any other reason for the problem you have.

the problem with the clutch I also could imagine but not sure. so when you put the clutch out please make some detailed pictures from the pins you have let made and also how the center aluminum ring is fixed and also the center steel plate what is mounted with 3 metall springs to the 3 pins. between those pins and the metal springs of the center steel plate there have to come some washers. and those have to be exactly meassured. otherwise you may get this problem you just have.

so happy weekend work


no meassuring and testing? normaly I would agree, but I would check again before closing the diff at the end the pattern with color to double check. only 5 minutes to see clear

 

Yes, I think you're right. It was my fault for not testing the 4/5 shifting before installing.

Yes, I've installed the clutch several times before. I am aware of those washers. But just now I am wondering if I put them on the wrong side. I can't imagine doing that but I guess it's possible. I will take pics when I disassemble.

Yes, of course. I was thorough in some areas and lazy in others.

"When you ASSUME you make an ASS out of U and ME"

 

I have fingers crossed for you Scott. You are going through hell over there.

Pictures of the clutch install would be great to have on this thread as mine is off as well and a reference would be great.

 

I was focused on this project enough to take a bunch of pictures in the beginning. By this point, I'm so frustrated I just want to get it over with.

But since you asked Mr. Hayden...I will comply

 

Scott,

We are all pulling for you! Just regroup you will get it sorted.


Dave

 

Thanks Dave. I need all the encouragement I can get.

Yes, I will get there.

 

Remember that you're starting at the top of the automotive heap doing a transmission. Imagine doing this on heap - Then I'd agree with you that whiskey sounds "refreshing" You're going to get this thing sorted correctly and fall back in love with her.

My suggestion: Study the forks and shift shaft position with the side cover off. Have someone in the car move the shift lever per your instruction and check out R & 1 / 2 & 3 / 4 & 5, and I'd think you'll know for certain if the 4-5 slider movement is limited. If you did mis-align the synchro rings, it's interesting that both are off ??

You know - - - - I'm wondering if the shift shafts are not positioned correctly. My thought is that little spud which locks out movement on the adjacent shaft would engage and cause the problem you're experiencing. The good news about this is it should be fix-able in the car. (Sorry if you already addressed this).

Fingers crossed for you!

 

"Transmission" isn't a horrible enough description

The effort and complexity for this project ARE at the top of the heap! -- all positive F mojo to Scott.

 

You guys are my cheerleaders! I'm pumped up now!

I had to take a break and go make some money. You know, that green stuff that pays for all this fun I'm having?!?!?

Well, I think I have the gearbox figured out. I assembled the 4/5 synchro incorrectly.

The clutch problem I'm not sure about. Hey Romano can you verify the location of those flat washers?

Motor and trans are back in my garage. Just waiting for time to tear it down again. I'll do it right this time....I hope.

 

please put a photo or 2 in here how the clutch ( the shims for the center plate ) is mounted.
also if the 2 disk are correct installed and not that the gearbox side will look to the engine side?

 

[You guys are my cheerleaders! I'm pumped up now!]



Can't yell loud enough or jump high enough!!!!

 

You look ridiculous in that skirt and pom poms!

 

OK, I'm finally back to the point of having that gear box back on my bench. It's amazing how much more work you can accomplish when you have help. My daughter is here for the weekend and my son-in-law knows his stuff. At least he knows how to turn a wrench and that it very helpful.

So here's the pics of the clutch and I am almost certain I see the problem. Those washers shouldn't be under the flat tabs. They should be over it. Am I right Romano?? Take a look and tell me what you see wrong.
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nice ot hear that you have help now scott so good to have a family in this case now

I don´t see any mistake. but I wonder what this part is what I marked here. this I have never seen. can you zoom please a liitle? may be also other side?

also please make a photo of the middle plate where it is connected to the 3 pins you have let made. there is in a very small "spring ring " and that is important. I can not see this form the position you took the photos.

the washers under the flap tabs are ok. so it has to be.
but may be you used wrong thickness of those washers? all have to be equal to minimum 5/100 mm. and when you then put the pressure plate from the clutch on you also have to put washers on the other 3 bolts where the pressure plate is mounted. and the thickness of all washers and with and without flap taps has to be the same. where the flap taps are the aluminum ring is a little deeper, but this size is not exactly the thickness of the flap taps. so you need normaly 3 equal washers for the 3 bolts where the flap taps are on and also 3 washers for the other 3 bolts.

in the WSM it is described in secor E 7 and E 8, but not sooooo good, typical F description

important is when you put on the pressure plate that when it is tightened that this plate is not mounted under tension. it is hard for me to tell you this in english but I hope you know what I mean?

you may make a test: put the complete clutch together but don´t put in the 2 clutch disks. then you put on the pressure plate and then this plate has to lay at all 6 bolts on the washers or on the flap tabs. if so it is ok. if not you see where you may change some

also I see on the internal toothing of the cluthc disc a lot of rust. the shaft going into this internal toothing you may put some grease on, not much and no oil. when the discs are not moving easy on the shaft you may have this problem that the clutch will not separate properly.
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That is one of the 3 ears on the midplate. It's slid onto the pin I had fabricated. Remember??

That IS what this picture shows. However, I think you're referring to those tiny snap rings inside the midplate?? This snap ring slides onto those pins I had made, right? Guess what? I found one of those on the ground. Looks like it's time to buy a new clutch

So the washers DO go under the flaptabs?? Not over?

 

sorry scott I don´t remember. I only know that you have let made the 3 pins

but for what you put in those "ears"? normaly there is nothing and the holder for the center plate is on the aluminum ring. so I wonder a little now what you have done and why?

so as it looks now the middle or center pllte is always pushing the rear clutch disk to the pressure plate and it never can separate because of this pressure

when you buy a new clutch then just take not an orignal one. take a sintered metal clutch

right

 

More oops!

The reason my gearbox wouldn't go into 4/5 was because I swapped the shift rods from 2/3 and 4/5. There is one extra notch in the 2/3 shift rod than there is the 4/5. If you reverse these rods, that's what you get R,1,2,3, but no 4/5.

Fortunately I did not have to remove any gears. I still could not have fixed this in the car though.

I will be reassembling tomorrow and either ordering a new clutch or seeing if I can figure out what's wrong with this one.

1 problem down, 1 problem remaining. Soon to drive.

 

this I can not understand now scott

once I told you to loose all screws from the shifting and then push the forks with the sleeve on the gears. you told me that you did so but only the sleeve for R and 1st and the sleeve for 2nd and 3rd is moving. you could not move the fork with the sleeve on the 4th and 5th. so at that time you have then not loosened and removed all the screws? otherwise the sleeve would go on the synchros. this is not a matter of the swapped shift rods because the forks are not firmly connected to the shift rods when you loosen the screws.


but good that you found the mistake

 

Yeah, I obviously didn't have them loose enough or didn't have the bolts removed. It doesn't matter, I knew it wasn't right and I had to pull it out anyway to fix it.

 

I know someone who did that mistake of putting them the wrong side. His clutch would not disengage completely and make the first gear grind on complete stop. He removed the clutch and called AP Racing to get info and switch the shims ''washer'' on the other side and apparently it solved his problem. He did that this week.

Here is the copy of his email.

First gear appears to be completely fixed. No grinding at all!
I have to put the muffler back on and road test but it seems to work great!
I contacted "AP Racing" who made the clutch and they gave me a few tips
On checking the specs. Seems to shift like the 308 now.
The problem it had is gone. Clutch pedal release is in the proper spot
And no grinding.
I'll let you know how the road test goes!

 

I forgot that I still have my old clutch from years ago. I replaced it because the release bearing had seized. The rest of the clutch was in good shape.

Romano, do you think it would it be safe to just use the midplate from the old clutch? Or should I just use all of it?

 

Just another word of encouragement...I've been following this thread with great interest. If you can conquer this you can conquer anything!

 

scott
you may meassure the thickness of the old center plate on about 20 different sections of the plate. if all are the same ( +/- 1/100 mm ) you may take the old one without any problem.
otherwise you may grind the plate, both sides, but then you need different sizes of the washers

 

DUDE! You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge. If I do succeed, they should be cheering you, not me.