What is my '13 Spider Worth

I am interested in exiting my '13 458 Spider with 1100 miles. Car had MSRP of 323. Spec list and pictures are here:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/458-italia/383165-ferro-cuoio-spider.html

I see two options:

1) Turn into dealer, I can get MSRP back either as trade credit or straight cash

2) Do a private party or partial trade to a non f-car dealer (perhaps for a Ford GT, or perhaps just cash sale)

I don't have my eye on any f-car for now other than perhaps the 458 MC but I was told that chances are low of me getting one given other bigger clients in queue.

I am wondering where the REAL market for spiders like mine is right now. Not the asking prices but the real trading prices in order to determine what I am leaving on the table by going back to original dealer. Clearly there is a relationship thing here too so I don't intend to compromise that for a couple thousand $, but if the delta is more like 20-30k then its a different thought process. Obviously there is a sales tax benefit to me by using it as a trade as opposed to sale.

Any insight or recommendations?

 

That was actually the plan until I did some soul searching and realized I want a more timeless car that I can enjoy without "next model anxiety". To that end I have secured a build slot for a Singer Vehicle Design 911

So I don't think I really want the F12 .. I would rather actually go with a 430 Scud (Which I think is a more timeless car than the 458) and take a bunch of cash off the table and reallocate it to the Singer when it arrives in fall 2014.

 

I'm going to trade the spider to dealer and I may have him broker a deal for a 430 scud i have found ..

Tangent: wrt to the classic car thing, you guys are very confused about the singer and what it is. There is nothing not new about it except the frame of the donor car. There is no 'old car' in it to modify. It is built to a standard that exceeds any modern manufacturer .. and it drives better than anything on the road, according to multiple well known journalists. It is as close to perfection as is currently possible in a sports car, of any era. It is described as an optimized car rather than a 'retro' car.

you can find some proper information in lots of google but here is a thorough video by chris harris and EVO article by Richard Meaden. Meaden has tested every sports car that exists (F40,F50, Enzo, Mclaren, Pagani, etc included). Here is what Meaden recently said after testing the car:

"Regularly sampling cars so far above your pay grade leads you to develop a professional code much like that of a doctor – you don’t get emotionally involved. Unfortunately with cars like the Porsche 911 by Singer, that’s easier said than done. When the time finally comes to leave this heartbreakingly wonderful machine behind, I feel something akin to grief. I’m unlikely ever to have the funds to commission one of Dickinson’s masterpieces, but if I could have one – built to my precise specification – I’d never want another car."

Porsche 911 by Singer


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQ4hQSusjE]The Singer 911: All You Ever Wanted to Know - /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]

 

I think you will want to do more research about the singer in order to have an actual informed opinion. A 991 turbo s is literally incomparable to singer's car.

 

This thread is going to turn into the metaphysics of sports cars but here goes: The 458 rationale is simple for me. I have had three 458s, two coupes and this spider since summer 2010. I'm basically out of love with the 458 after these 3 years. My perspective on sports cars has evolved and now its clear to me that the latest and greatest is actually almost never the greatest in the long run. I am also looking for certain things that usually are not in line or economical enough for broad market adoption which is why they are hard to find.

458 is a great modern car but it does not have the element of timelessness which is what I want in my cars from here on out. Its not exciting on the same level as the other cars I have or appreciate like the Carrera GT, Ford GT, F40, or even the 430 scuderia. The car does everything well no doubt, but it is too easy to drive and at normal speeds you just can't get deep satisfaction from it. I find it twitchy on the throttle and the steering is a bit dead although hyper fast. It was designed to give high impact fast to most drivers.

As an example of what I mean, I just test drove my neighbors 430 Scud, a car I had also driven about 3 years ago. There is something about the scud that is just magical in the way that I didn't get from my 458 coupe. The 458 pulls harder and is generally 'better' at the numbers but the steering and pedal feel and sound of the scud are top. The whole intensity of the experience in the scud is higher. I think its a 'Real Ferrari' in the way an F40 is. The icing on the cake is that the value is so good its almost a no brainer to own one, which is precisely what I am trying to do while I wait for the Singer. So I do not intend to leave the Ferrari family, I am just tuning to my tastes. I think I could keep the scud 1 year or 5 years and I am likely to lose nothing on it, possibly even make a little which is more icing on the cake.

Regarding the Singer, I guess I see the world differently than most on this forum (not surprising). There really is a lack of understanding of what Singer is doing. The post above references 'making old parts new'. The only pieces or design of the donor car that are retained are the ones that cannot be made better with new components - and that is very little. For example the steering is deemed to be the best of ANY 911 ever, 2013 included (by far). So Singer makes that part of the car like new and keeps the same design. That is an example among many others of why it makes no sense to start from a 2013 Porsche and 'tinker'. And, to be clear Singer is not trying to build a 2013 911, they are trying to build a 911 that is from all years and is the optimization of the best from each.

Other examples that can paint the picture of 'newness' and over the top excellence: the body work is entirely carbon fiber made by Aria, an engineering and aerospace specialist that designs and fabricates carbon at the highest possible level. All panels are custom designs by Singer. There are 4mm shutlines all around (show me that on a modern ferrari). Every piece of metal in our out of the car is nickel plated. The suspension / damping system is full Ohlins TTX 3 way. The electrical harness is all new custom, mil-spec connectors on everything and there is a MOTEC M800 ECU (they make ECUs for Le Mans, IndyCar, FIA GT, etc). The headlamp units are the same Hella pieces used on Le Mans prototype cars. The engine is built by Cosworth, who has been making formula 1 engines for Williams etc for 40 years. The wheels are custom machined new. The sound deadening and vibration control is done by an audio engineering specialist that typically is commissioned to work on private jets. There is a lot more but you should get the picture. The car feels like it is made out of a single piece of billet.

And, it drives better than it looks or feels to the touch, if that is even possible. So, that is why its well worth the high price and also why I am totally confident that resale will not be an issue. There is a long history of special machines built by geniuses that become instant classics with enthusiasts (see Chip Foose, Ruf, etc). I believe Rob Dickinson, the Singer founder and main creative brain, is such a person for Porsche fans and is making a timeless machine. He is singularly obsessed with perfection and striving for it and this is a principle that I have full faith in (see Steve Jobs). It also appears like there are plenty of people that think the same as the order book is full through next year, so the market has spoken. None of that matters though because my expectation is to keep this car forever as an heirloom if life will have it that way.