Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

My P1 predictions are based on talking with the guys who are running the car there now and the times they've already achieved.

My 918 predictions are based on what the head development engineer told me this week and his statement that they will be under 7.

Porsche are Ring Meisters and may have more up their sleeve then they've let on. The production version of 918 is VERY nice and produces major cornering G's. Major. They also have a VERY good new tire from Michelin who's tires at the Ring we found to be very fast.

 

Still, the LaFerrari time is conjecture, or guesswork to be more precise. Only independent tests will tell us the truth. I don't really trust factory claims.

 

Could you provide a video of such lap?

Maybe your car completed many laps to the Nordschleife + GP Circuit, but never a full Nordschleife lap.

I've never seen a car complete a full NS lap during qualy or race at the N24 as the start/finish line form the NS is blocked by tires.
The only way I see a car posting a NS time during this sessions is by making a hypotetical course time of the final meters of the track, but never by physically (and hence officially) doing so. Maybe you got an special permission I don't know about, that's why I ask for the video.

Other manufacturers that participate at the N24 are very interested in NS times, and the cars they use for that race could easily trump the Zonda R's record lap. I wonder why not Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, etc. have claimed to have done so, if they just could take a go at it during the race/qualy.

Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't accept 99 cents for one dollar.

When the video drops, the BS stops.

 

I agree about factory claims about 0-300/weight/etc. but Ring Times are easily verifiable by the Public.

 

I wouldn't say so. First of all the Ring has 2 or 3 different lengths depending on where you start and where you finish. Then, a manufacturer may use trick engines, gear ratios, aero, tyres, etc that are not used in the actual production cars. Finally, videos can be tampered with. Only truly independent tests (with the presence of manufacturers' delegates to ensure equality and fairness) with random customer cars are 100% reliable. If a certain car does not perform well, the manufacturer can ask for another production car to take its place. Otherwise, all manufacturers will be bringing ringers. Alternatively, you can have the FIA to check the whole process, but that would be too much!

 

Not true.

We've completed many NS laps. The NS is totally able to run exactly as Ferrari did with their factory 599xx effort on free practice days.

 

I understand what you're saying and there are different "NS" configurations and lengths. No question that Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche will all go flat out with a car that may not exactly be "bone stock" but as they all will,and will all run the same configuration many will compare those times and practically they will matter. Weather/temperature/traffic all make a difference there and perhaps overall finishing in a 24 would be a better test or the test you propose might be but "Ring times" will be noted and compared and even if not a perfect contest they will be compared and reported by the Automotive Press as our 6:51 was.

The losers will have an explanation 4 sure.



Cheers

 

I somehow doubt that the Italians and the Brits will go down that route. The Germans certainly will, but when was the last time that Ferrari or McLaren announced an official Ring time for a road car? I guess that each will nominate a few tracks (i.e. Ferrari: Fiorano, Monza; McLaren: Silverstone, Montmelo; Porsche: NS, Hockenheim) and each will claim supremacy. I really don't see Alonso pounding lap after lap in order to claim a record that has nothing to do with modern F1 (Ferrari's marketing showcase). NS is a tough, hellish if you may, piece of tarmacadam. It is not the beginning or the end of the motoring world though; there have been longer, faster and more dangerous circuits throughout times.

Anyway dear James, do you regard the Ring as more importan than say, The Temple of Speed (Monza), or Le Mans as a metric? I don't to be honest.

Cheers mate.

 

bmagni,

You appear to have a point:

On Jim's P4/5 C site the car has done some other races at the venue but I assume also on the combined circuit:

So I'm a little confused ... EDIT: See below in blue.

OR when one refers to the Nordschleife now, are we referring to the combined track?

Note the ADAC site refers to the track as 25km's long, thus: 25km = 15mi 940.33yd. Original was 14 miles long but tracks do get modified over time.

I NOW think the modern F1 track was made out of original parts (or as tracks do get modified over time the new track route also modified the original) of the original Nordschleife, thus lapping the combined is effectively the same as lapping the original and this is what people mean when they set times on this track.
Pete

 

Actually, he knows what he is talking about. The full straight is barely open in races.

 

I've edited my post, but how can they do a lap if the straight is closed? Is there an alternative track section they use?

As I've said above the combined track is now the Nordschleife, the original has been modified and lost ... I think.
Pete

 

The Nurburgring is comprised of two tracks; the shorter Southern Loop and the longer (and famous) Northern Loop. The north loop is largely untouched but has different configurations and starting points. The south loop has been morphed into the the GP Circuit. To cut a long story short, it is a vast road complex and anyone can manipulate it depending on the chosen configuration. FYI, there is an even longer, faster and more complex track complex in Europe; the Gruppo Fiat testing facility at Balocco. Google Image Result for http://www.gdecarli.it/Circuiti/ITA/ITA%20Balocco%20C.gif The longest Grand Prix track ever was also in Italy; the GP of Pescara. Pescara Circuit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

That is great and all, but does not answer my question. We know the ADAC uses the north loop and the GP circuit and yet you are saying the straight is blocked off. How can this be and a race of many laps be held on it? Do they "manipulate it" so a small section is not used?

And also for Jim to have a Ferrari record the ADAC track must match the Nurburgring circuit the manufacturers use ... which is back to the original point I believe. Therefore it does not matter if we are not using the actual original Nordschleife, that is like debating that an old car does not have it's original air in the tyres.

Jim's car lapped the current modern equivalent that all records are set on.
Pete

 

From what I understood the P 4/5C ran the northern loop - the one we all apparently care about - during free practice, and got a time of 6:51.

 

That is doable. Mr Glickenhaus will enlighten us though.

 

Correct. On race weekend practice was held separately on both the NS and the GP track. The race was held on the combination of the two. We ran many timed NS laps many timed GP laps and many timed combined laps. We showed all of our telemetry to the press and they confirmed our 6:51 on the NS on race weekend and reported accordantly.

Next Monday and Tuesday Road and Track is testing Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina and P 4/5 C.

We have full use of MMC's Full track which is smooth and fast. We invited any Enzo and 430 Scuderia to join us but so far no one else is showing up.

Both you, merstheman, and Pete are also invited.

So far I believe merstheman, all the way from Brazil, will be showing up which is pretty cool.

Getting back to this thread I still believe many will care whether 918, P1 or La Ferrari is faster at the Ring and I know that Ferrari will do it's level best to go faster than our 6:51.

Cheers.
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Okay I've learnt the Northern Loop is the one that matters and P4/5 C has been there and done that.

Love to go Jim but a long way away from Sydney, unfortunately. Will look out for the article though.
Pete

 

I have to stay in Europe for the foreseeable future but I thank you sir for the invitation. Most kind of you! Will be looking forward to that magazine article and hopefully an Enzo will show up. Also, instrument testing would be great, even though that is a stretch too far as a desire.

Best regards,
Alex

 

Very Seriously all of you should pencil in spring 2015.

We we be back at the Ring with a new car.

Light, simple, small and pretty.

You only live once and the chance to stand in the pits at 3am in the fog and the rain with us and watch SCG 003 thunder by us isn't something you get to do every day...

 

Thanks again, for the invitation, Jim! I'm very excited to see these two in the flesh, it'll make my holiday. I'll contact you later this week so we can figure out the details.

 

Great!

 

Jim, be careful, brazilian people are crazy.

 

Yeah, but just about as much as people who construct their own awesome cars and then take on major manufacturers at the Nurburgring...

 

Hey Now!!!!!!

 

Wasn't the record time posted during qualifying and not practice? That's what the original reports and you said.

Anyways,

Free Practice: minute 6:14, no visible easy access to a full NS lap

VLN.3 Free practice. Testing the Jaco's Paddock E46 M3 - YouTube

Qualifiyng: minute 9:30, no visible easy access to a full NS lap

24h Nürburgring 2013 Onboard Schirra Mini Qualifying Fast lap sport auto - YouTube

Race: minute 10:24, no visible easy access to a full NS lap

#223 Ferrari P4/5 Competizione Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus - 31.03.12 - YouTube

I've seen cars do GP track laps only, never NS only.

I ask once again, could you post the video of the record lap?