Of course vettel will say that now. We all know he vetoed kimi at red bull
2008: Massa - 6 wins Kimi - 2 wins WDC: Massa - 97 Kimi - 75 2009 (until Massa's injury): Massa: 22 points Kimi: 11 points For being supposedly "faster," he was comprehensively beaten. This is another Raikkonen myth...that he is supposedly more "naturally talented" and has more "natural speed" than other drivers. Whatever that means. This is obviously due to his injury. Plus, who knows how much better of a car the Lotus has been than Ferrari the last 2 years. I'd argue significantly better. I'm not going to debate this anymore, but Kimi was beaten by Massa. These are simply facts. No amount of conspiracies will explain that away.
We do? Source please. I'm pretty sure he didn't veto anyone - He's the king at the Cans, as he should be with 3xWDC's of course, and isn't "afraid" of anyone IMO. Kimi or Fred, I actually think he'd love to be in the same car as either of 'em. Would he get smoked? I'd love to find out....... We may not be fans, but the kid deserves some respect - He's one of the few that has *consistently* beaten his 'mate over the years. Cheers, Ian
I disagree, that's all; and I state once again that I don't believe in conspiracies; but I know Ferrari's history fairly well also. Furthermore, if you look at the agenda of the 2008 wins for each driver, you'll see clearly that Kimi season began to fade only at the 2/3 of the season. After the deal with santander was signed and after Jean Todt's left... Two of Massa's victories could have been Kimi's: one should have been (the broken exhaust in France) one was due to Kimi's accident (his fault) in Spa. And I know "should have been", "could have been, etc" (in French: avec des "si", on mettrait Paris en bouteille); the question is not about the amount of points scored, the question is "was Kimi smoked by Felipe?". Regarding the question of "natural speed", I have no problem acknowledging Massa's, and remember perfectly Peter Sauber saying, during Felipe's first season with him: "he is even faster than Räïkkönen". And, by the way, I don't believe the 2009 accident to be responsible of him not winning again: we had Hockenheim 2010, didn't we? The only thing I say is that Kimi was not "smoked" by Felipe; and I will remain convinced, knowing Ferrari's history, that some "outside" influence should not be neglected. How much, in which way: we will never know. So let's agree to disagree. Rgds
By saying Massa is still fast, you're only hurting your argument. Alonso has absolutely destroyed Massa so that only adds more backing to LdM having made the right decision when he fired Raikkonen. You may not think he was smoked, but the points tell the tale. Triple the wins in '08, 22 point difference (50+ points in today's money). Double the points in '09 prior to the injury. Maybe smoked is too strong a word, but he was certainly beaten. That much is clear.
Agreed: there is no reason for him to fear anyone, having a former World Champion as team-mate might have elevated his reputation; I'm sure he would have done just fine. I still do wonder why he doesn't seem to be as highly regarded as a three-time world champion should be? Most people here seem to think that "anyone" could have won with an Adrian Newey's car...perhaps he should change team and win another one, with another car, to silence his critics. Rgds
I'm getting kinda bored with all this, let's just make a decision. And I'm still saying I could see Kimi going to McLaren with Button possibly heading to Ferrari.
Sorry, that's not what I was trying to say: from my point of view, asking him to let Alonso go by this day at Hockenheim has hurted Felipe more than the accident: it was just like saying to him: "forget it, you won't". And you know as well as I know that these: "x" was faster than "y" who was in turn faster than "z" doesn't always work: example: Patrick Depailler was faster than Ronnie Peterson in 1977 at Tyrrell; Jacques Laffite was faster than Patrick Depailler in 1979 at Ligier; so Jacques Laffite must have been faster than Peterson. Convinced? Hardly. Fernando himself has a difficult 2004 season against Trulli; but I still think him overall as "faster"; remember also some races against Fisichella, for instance the Canadian Grand Prix 2005, about the 16th lap, when he was unable to overtake Fisichella and was yelling to Flavio in his radio: "I'm faster than him", to what Flavio answered "OK, overtake him then...". I still think him as faster than Giancarlo, too. But I am always happy to discuss...
For the time being, Kimi is in bed. I guess he'll stay at Lotus for 2014. The question shifts now to wether Ferrari will keep Felipe or not?
The team orders were the obvious choice. If Felipe was so bothered, he shouldn't have been beaten by Alonso so badly prior to the German GP.
Convenient. Look, I know you're a huge Kimi fan and hate Alonso, but your bias is getting in the way of reality. I am a fan of both, so I feel like I can look at this rationally. Hardcore Kimi fans (who are big Alonso haters 90% of the time) have this nasty habit of coming up with a million excuses as to why Kimi was fired for Alonso. It wasn't about money, Ferrari is one of the richest teams. It was about Kimi being beaten by Massa. Kimi was convincingly beaten by the #2 for 1.5 seasons until Massa got hurt and unfortunately this fact is not going to go away. The F2008 was a rocket, there is no reason LH should have won that title. Kimi failed and Ferrari had to rely on Massa. We all know what happened.[/QUOTE] I´m not a huge Kimi fan, i´m a HUGE Ferrari fan, thats all, and for that simple fact i can´t stand to have people that have slammed Ferrari´s name, and cheated against it inside the team...LUca was crazy to accept Alonso...no money in the world is enough to have to put up with that guy driving a Ferrari every other Sunday. Truth is Kimi never badmouthed Ferrari "or any other team" and he did the job at his first try. He left, he came back and is still winning races with a team that probably as half the budget Ferrari has. Alonso had his chance and he screwd it...he drove very well last year but it wasn´t enough, by the end of the year, massa was faster and handed him in a plate lot´s of points, if not so, he would have lost the title long before Brazil....to be beaten in most part of the final races when you´re fighting for a title, by a team -mate thar everyone says should be fired does not impress me.
Because people love to hate the person that makes it look easy. Apart from most Ferrari supporters, Schumacher was hated throughout the world (also by all of Britain, but for different reasons). Webbo couldn't do it in 2011, and he certainly couldn't do it in 2012. He was close in 2010 but that was it...In 2009 he had far fewer retirements than Vettel and still couldn't come close. The ones that are saying Vettel doesn't have the talent are mindless haters or blatent idiots. Their choice.
Personal observation of more than 20 years of F1 racing. Not much of a proof, I know. Other than that though, the highly esteemed Peter Windsor had written an article where he explained why Kimi was quicker round a single lap, as good as Alonso is in a good car throughout race distance, and better than the Spaniard in a bad one. On a sidenote, Kimi is apolitical, whereas Alonso is an arse more often than not! Cheers.
Gentlemen, Should you like "suspense stories", then you will love this. As for myself, I'm slightly tired. Hope the Kimster will have everything sorted out in his head for the race. Rgds Red Bull insists Kimi Raikkonen still a 2014 candidate - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com
im probably kimis biggest fan on here, but i dont think kimi is better than alonso. Ibthink hes as good though. Hes far more consistent though.
