Anyone here have a mileage 355 with original valve guides?

It does not take long for one to see the valve guide issue is blown way out of proportion....

 

My point was that valve guides cannot be diagnosed my driving. Car will drive just fine...until the engine is destroyed. I had a valve guide problem in a 964.

 

I don't think that happens often in the 355. What generally happens is a gradual loss of power followed by an idle misfire that gradually gets worse until the car no longer runs on all 8. As somebody once described it, it's like a bad prostate. It gradually gets worse and worse until the car no longer runs, but rarely (ever?) destroys the engine. What can happen is if the owner doesn't realize it, the fuel mixture doesn't get a good burn and unburnt gas goes into the cats, heats them up to melting point and then melts down the cats/headers and can then burn up exhaust valves if really let go, but even that usually doesn't result in a blow motor.

I know some cars with valve guide issues (newer z06's) will drop a valve when the guides go, but it's due to using 2 piece sodium filled valves that can't take any side loading. The 355 doesn't have that particular issue that I'm aware of.

 

Yes I changed the right side with the left side LOL

 

Hello i was prompted to post this after reading post #8.
I have been reading this thread with great interest. I am currently involved in a major service on my 92 thousand miles 1995 (September) F355 GTS which i have owned for 17 years. So while i was reading this thread and also doing a service at the same time. I thought i would quickly remove the inlet manifolds to check what valve guides i have in. My car was dealer serviced up to 5 years ago when i took over. The car has NOT had any work done to the engine other than routine servicing. And it still drives like a dream and looses no oil or smokes. The car has always been driven in a spirited manor all its life.
I thought i would share what i have found with whom ever is interested.
As you can see from the photos my valve guides are as bronze color as a bronze thing.
I am not changing them by the way.
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Thanks for sharing.

 

The 160mph pic was a friend with a camera, the 180mph was with an i-phone so it got blurry when transferred. The GPS read 172mph as the speedo read 180+ not too much error, I expected much more

 

Late to the reply party on this thread, but fwiw ours has 77k km (48k mi), '95 GTB (Nov 94 build) and runs beautifully on AFAIK orig valve guides. Gets exercised regularly, usually moderately with a quick run or two per month north of 5k rpm.

These are great cars, take care of them and use them the way they were designed to be used, and they're just a joy to own.

 

I have a 95 GTS with 30 000 miles and no valve issues. I also have a Porsche 930 Turbo with 54 000 miles that needed an engine recon and new valve guides!

Have you guys ever thought why the Valve Guide issue is so big in the states only? Chat to mechanics from Asia, Australia, Italy, Germany, UK, South Africa and they will tell you that Valve Guides are not one of their big issues on the 355, replacing/repairing headers are! That's not to say some cars haven't been done, it’s just not an overriding consideration.

And yet Stateside everyone is saying don't buy this car unless valve guides have been done!

Oh, the hype!

Like the Porsche 993, the 355 is a brilliant Ferrari, one of the best of breed. Yet, like old haggling woman, we create this media explosion on valve guides sending potential owners scattering away from one of the best cars they could ever drive!

Oh the insanity!

It’s a Ferrari....drive it like a Ferrari.
Warm it up, then drive it past 8000RPM and do this often, then service it regularly!
It’s that simple!

 

I agree. I have owned many Turbo, 911 SC, Carrera, Porsches and my current 355. I do the same. Drive the heck out of them and do the maintanence and never had a problem on any valve guides on them. Lucky? Maybe. I think cars that sit around and are not driven the way they are designed to be driven may be the problem.

 

Nice pics. Anyone know if port and polishing the intake manifold would have any benefit?

 

Very decent of you, thankyou.
It gives owners of early cars better nights sleep hearing about cars like mine.

 

just broke 70K miles this week, hopefully will make it past 100 K

 

1995 with 34,000 miles all original, I drove 88 miles today non stop between 90 & 95 mph
ran cool no nothing, lots of vans with kids & cars were keeping up with me & taking pictures

lots of hands with cameras out the windows while shouting nice car (it really made my day)

I guess you guys deal with this thing every time you are out with the F355

 

...brettb is right!! Forget about the value guides, check your headers.

'97 GTB Manual - w/21K mi - original guides TMK. I became 3rd owner at 14K mi, the 2nd owner replaced cats with HyperFlows at 12K mi.

How did I diagnose the headers? I went to cold start her one day, and upon revs, she sounded like a old VW bug with "pea shooters" for exhaust.

Upon inspection, the headers looked like swiss cheese. Two pipes actually fused together and swapped gasses. I guess they were planning on making baby pipes until I caught them in the act. It sucks, you don't want your pipes having sex, but it's hard tell with those pesky factory heat shields welded on.

I opted for rebuilt headers (w/ thicker gauge steel) for under $2K from a local metal fabricator (versus paying $7K for tubi, $2500 rebuild/core from recambi, Fabspeed made in Taiwan/no heat shield/powder coating dilemma)

As a reward, I slapped her with a used Tubi exhaust and she sounds amazing, has a little more power on the top end, and is generally a bit more responsive.
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Ha, nice analysis.

Kinda crappy that even though you had Hyperflows, your headers still melted.

 

I have 95 GTB with 27k mi that's definitely starting to smoke and consume oil within the last 100-200 mi of driving. I would say about a quart per fill-up. It's a strong indication some valves guides are about to go. I'm laying low at the moment to see if I should go ahead with a 30k service and get the valves done or just get the valves done. I guess the million dollar question for me at this point is ... what's the best valve guide to use? I would probably replace all of them.

 

Dave Helms, Scuderia Rampante, installed sintered steel valve guides as used on the 360. I trust his experience and knowledge for my valve guide choice.

 

Just to be clear. OEM steel valve guides? I'm considering shipping my car to Dave as well.

 

OEM 360 sintered steel guides. They were a bit hard to source when I did mine a couple of years ago.
Dave provides quality service. Very satisfied customer.

 

Ferrari went to sintered steel valve guides on the 360 and 575M, probably because they could control the quality better. Nothing wrong with bronze valve guides. Just need good ones. One source for valve guides, but they may have to be custom cut. Still cheaper than Ferrari 360 valve guides at $50-60 each. Especially 40 of them.



CHE Precision Inc
2640 Lauery Ct, Suite C
Newbury Park, CA 99320
(805) 499-8885
CHE Precision FLASH Intro
Valve Guides, Seats

 

1995 is a unique subset-Motronic 2.7, a much faster car than 5.2 Motronic cars, so much so that the Factory rep told us(I was en engine duilder at a Factory store) that the 1996 and forward cars had to have the final drives re geared to adjust the accceleration as the drop off from 95 was so noticeable-OBD-2 cause and effects....
these cars and 5.2 cars built up to 1998(mid year as I recall..some say its mid 97, I have no documentation and perhaps there are others who can clarify this bit of minuitia) used a copper bronze compoud in the guides.

These are ssoft, but transfer the heat very well-which is the reason they were used, as the hole in the exhaust headers will attest to the fact that getting the heat out has always been problematic in such a small motor makmng such big power at such hi RPMs...
the lowest mileage guides we did under warranty was at 9800...the highest was 53,000
Nearly ALL were weakening(trained ear can hear the enginme as it starts to gradually go off song)in early/ mid 20,000 mile area with most shot at 30 or marginally above.

the late version cars were delivered with "powderr metal" compound guides best thought of as "cast iron"...for simplicity sakes...these, as the name implies, wear like iron...and are installed in most Challenge cars.
they are extremely difficult to machince, broach, ream, hone,due to the hardness and "gumminess" of the residue left in tooling.
In a std street car issue, I have, as yet, seen a car taken down for this ailment-and I do custom machine work on BIG Racing Ferraris....
worthy of note, in addition to rapid wear of the early materials, they tend to wipe out the valve stems as well and these will need to be replace-especially intakes. Normal taqper to the tulip end from mid stem is 5 tenths on a perfect finish, any more and they are junk....clearance is TIGHT, and critical, do not be lulled into a hi end limit as this means you will be doing it again in a couple years...wear rate is NOT linear as wear limits approach 75% and above...its an asymtote..
FWIW

 

'96 w/ 48k+ mi. Original guides, no issues. Solid car. I drive this thing A LOT! Lots of California coast and mountain drives.

 

What is this "OBD-2" and why did it cause a drop in power output in the 5.2 cars.? The only difference I see is in the intake design. I've also read about later cars suffering valve failure. Is it possible that this valve guide issue is overblown and most cases driver error. Example: quick revving in neutral or racking it up to 8.5K when the engine/fluids are not at proper operating temperature yet.