Do you know they are getting half? Do tell more And unless all of the parties, Swaters/ Gardner/ Kleve - Lawson/ Bonhams agree to share and not spit the dummy, they wont be getting anything .
Moderators I ask will you please look closely at the constant TROLLING posts by mbzgurl. I'm no fanboy of OJ. And yes he posts from a biased position. But at least I know who he is and what his interest is. So far this thread has not "jumped the shark". But the new members with low posts are moving it that way.
Then why the increasing personal posts toward OJ. The stupid people quote? The diving picture what's up do you not have words and relevant info to add. Followed this thread from the beginning. You show up late have a axe to grind, tell no one who you are, add nothing. Repeating information you seem to be good at. Not understanding what a court filing is vs a court ruling that is either your lie or misunderstanding. Your not adding much. But you do seem to have it out for Joe. Ok that's fine. Pull up a chair tell us who you are. And disagree all you want. Implying someone is stupid. Hurts your credibility. The diving post sleazy. And both very personal. This thread has so far avoided both. Nah... Your a troll.
I think my posts are a legitimate contribution to this discussion, even if controversial for you. I asked to hear the side from Kristie Lawson, the woman involved, and I am interested in hearing her side. I heard the NPR spot, and it got me interested in this fastinating story. Miss Lawsons appearance was promised by Mr. Ocean, that really was my only interest. That never happened did it? Today, 82 pages of filings against Kristie Kleve and Ocean Joe were filed for breaching a court order. Have you anything to add? I doubt it. I read this thread like a novel, and I read all the media just released that is why I am here. Its just a blog, heavens! Pull up a chair and relax? LIG "Life is Good" Journalism is printing what someone does not want printed: everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
Ocean Joe PROMISED Miss Lawson's post? Read it like a novel you did huh. Help me out with the promised part....
In my opinion, Ocean Joe entered the thread as a troll. He was pretending to be a Ferrari collector ..then an attorney .and what else. Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the groups common interests and concerns; the newsgroups members, (if they are cognizant of trolls) and other identity deceptions, attempting to both distinguish real from trolling postings. And, upon judging a poster a troll, makes the offending poster leave the group. Their success at the former depends on how well they and the troll understand identity cues; their success at the latter depends on whether the troll's enjoyment is sufficiently diminished or outweighed by the costs imposed by the group. Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling where the rate of deception is high many honestly naïve questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded, being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's online reputation.[33] Susan Herring and colleagues in "Searching for Safety Online: Managing 'Trolling' in a Feminist Forum" point out the difficulty inherent in monitoring trolling and maintaining freedom of speech in online communities: "harassment often arises in spaces known for their freedom, lack of censure, and experimental nature".[34] Free speech may lead to tolerance of trolling behavior, complicating the members efforts to maintain an open, yet supportive discussion area, especially for sensitive topics such as race, gender, and sexuality. (And stolen Ferrari cars) [34] In an effort to reduce uncivil behavior by increasing accountability, many web sites (e.g. Reuters, Facebook, and Gizmodo) now require commenters to register their names and e-mail addresses.[35] I may be a low number poster, I am not a non-Ferrari owner.
Was yielding/signing the US title part of the deal with the parts etc? I wouldn't think so. Not sure I read the docket. OJ and Lawson had to surrender the title, all documents and parts by August 28, the deadline. That was the deadline ordered by the Judge. These motions today moved for contempt proceedings, now in play.
Learned my lesson I'm done. Should have listened to your Twain quote about arguing with stupid people.....
And as Ocean Joe made plainly clear for all to read he has strived to meet the deadline but Robert Brooks, chairman of Bonhams International was responsible for paying for shipping and for arranging where they were to be shipped to. I may not be a great Ferrari owner but one area I do have some knowledge of is international logistics, let me assure you it is impossible to arrange shipping of anything without knowing where its going, obtaining customs clearance etc. Call me an Ocean Joe cheerleader if you will..... Nothing I have read has proven a narrative other than this is just another powerplay by counterparties.
Your post is largely copy & paste from Wikipedia. I've bolded the section that's relevant, as it goes to credibilty to participate in this discussion - no profile filled in, unwilling to identify and claimed Ferrari ownership, whilst making all manner of assertions regarding the proceedings in the case. M
Why are you concerned about who I am when half the posters on this thread do not reveal their personal information. It isn’t required. And whether or not my post is a "copy & paste"is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, OJ is in contempt of court! Three times! It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to crate parts and get them to the port or the airport, and pick up the telephone and call Brooks. Should have happened last week when he was ordered to do so. It’s not that complicated. Furthermore, Joe has made it clear that he will not comply with the Judgement Entry dated 19, August 2013 and is purposely manufacturing delaying shipping the parts in direct defiance of what the Court has ordered him to do to the detriment of the other parties involved. In my opinion, Kristie Kleve and OJ already provided the Court an address where the parts are housed. My guess is that the premise is being surveiled 24/7. If no activity at that address has been reported, then, either the parts are not there or no one is doing anything to prepare them to be shipped to Bonham’s. That could be the case, since, Kristi works 2 jobs and is barely able to support herself, and Joe is unemployed, they might not even have the money to crate and ship the parts. Whether Bonham’s is paying or not. It’s been court ordered to inventory and ship the parts. Joe can send Bonham’s a bill and /or the port can also store the crated parts until shipping arrangements are finalized. Joe stated there was no point in traveling to Ohio, because, maybe he can’t afford to travel to Ohio. That would be a logical guess considering his circumstances. Joe, do you need a loan??
...annnnd back to discussions about cars: What exactly are the parts still in OJ/Kleve's possession? Best I can tell, these are 17 very old Borranis (two decades in an Ohio field, as discovered by readplays), the trunk lid (which I presume is damaged/burnt given Kimberly/Hively's last drive), a damaged fuel tank (fire, right?), various bits found in the field, and the data plate. Is the original engine still with person who bought it in 1970 or has this found its way into the mix? Anything else that isn't mostly destroyed? I don't get the sense there's a lot to "add" to 0834AM as it is now, apart from that missing original data plate. Perhaps I'm wrong?
I have to admit, as an innocent by stander, how "Ocean Joe" (who we all know who he is), has posted info that supports a case, whether right or wrong, is the guy taking all the daggers. His info has been very informative and clear. The counter to all of this has been by people who aren't F-Chat regulars and they ALL seem to cheer an adverse opinion. I don't know Joe, don't think I will ever meet him, nor could I care less if I do. The fact that this thread has gone on as long it has with REGULAR members who have the credentials to post and they AREN'T.... well, that says as much as I need to know... As far as I am concerned, "Ocean Joe" brought to light many things wrong in the "HISTORY" of our all beloved cars. The fact that ALL cars have history, love it or hate it, is still an issue. Even if this car is completely reunited, will it still be worthy of a Classiche status? That is the real question... And when that question is answered, is it one we will all accept?
Shawn, that was good. Nice to meet you too. I don’t think it matters how old we are, or how long we have been members here, or if we choose to just read threads or participate in them, and certainly not the number of posts I’ve made or what my name is! This particular story interests me; 1.) as a car crazy girl who has experience in the industry. 2.) I do not want to have to explain why I have a personal interest in this particular case. It’simple. I like to read about stuff like this. Besides, it doesn’t matter and it’s nobody’s business. There are a few vintage members here who know me, and I’m comfortable with that. Mona Image Unavailable, Please Login
+1 The big issue is possession of American title, still held by Kleve - Lawson OR no challenges to said title. Would be nice to have ALL parts reunited but that is less important than the title issues IMO. Until the estate relinquishes claim it will always be seen as a stolen car.
Clearly you missed the bit in post 872 where it says: "Bonhams will pay for all marketing, photography & transport costs" The more you post, the more it appears you have a vested interest in the outcome... your comment "2.) nor do I want to disclose my interests in this particular case" Seems to re-inforce this. No idea who you are, but it does appear that you have more than a passing interest in the case, and an agenda to follow in you posts, especially regarding OJ Time will tell M
I consider contributions suspect / agenda driven when more than 90% of someone's total posts appear in this thread. Quite a few people qualify, including the 'gurl and OJ. >8^) ER
It’s commmon sense. And Bonham’s IS paying! They aren’t the one’s holding up the works. As you recall Ocean Joe stated earlier in this thread, "If Bonham’s can’t make the Sept 14 auction, in my view it’s a whole new auction house ballgame, RM, Gooding’s, etc." Seems obvious to me, Ford is deliberately stalling the works. In legal terms, it’s called Contempt of Court. Joe knows that. He’s a lawyer.
It confirms a rumour I heard that the car/parts were supposed to be auctioned at the Goodwood Revival Meeting, correct? So if this date can't be met, what is the next viable oppertunity to go to a Bonhams auction? The "Zoute Grand Prix" event in Belgium this October? Or is that a bit tricky, considering the country? Best, Peter