Status update on GCK install

Fantastic Post John!!!! Ketel, open your mind and listen to John, he is trying to help you.

 

Here we go again with the GCK slamming and doctor analogies. Come on, do you guys ever stop?

 

Kettle please give us all the codes and lets start with the o2 sensors because I personally and many others have failed smog because of bad o2 s.

 

Rob, I apologize for my analogy. I posted a "sarcasm alert" to indicate it was suppose to inject a little humor into the post, not hate. Sorry. I get carried away. But I'm not making personal attacks on anyone posting. I am and have been, trying to help ketel regardless my position on the GCK. There are some very biased posters here that continue to sing the praise the GCK in spite of the fact that ketel has installed the kit and he still has the same problems. Apparently is it ok to say anything you like in support of the kit but even in light of its failure to resolved ketels problem your hand gets slapped if you point out the futility of ketel's effort. Sorry. It's is time for him to sit back, be open mined, ignore the hype and promotion, and do what is necessary to get his car running correctly so it will pass emission. Regardless of the pros and cons of the kit, the fact remains that ketel's car is not running right and this needs to be the focus of the posts. I have used some analogies because it appears apparent that those who are proponents of the GCK really seem to be missing that point. Sorry. I can only say I'm sorry so many time.

Perhaps this thread should also be closed and ketel should open up a new one "Help me get rid of my codes and pass emissions" where it is required to be completely void of the GCK. I would hope you and everyone would agree that at this point the GCK isn't the issue.

 

I feel my toes getting very warm. I'm afraid to look down! Oh wait, that's just the brandy.

 

Not to point fingers but the ones doing the personal attacks are those that don't want accept the technical data and research done by experts in the industry - electrical contact mfg.

I became very interested in this because I was highly considering the kit even though I had some doubts. This thread and the other provided me plenty of information to make an educated decision and it's clear to me that there has not been enough data to support the effort and cost of the kit. That's my opinion and if someone else feels the opposite, that's cool but to blindly ignore some of the very helpful information is foolish but that is their prerogative.

 

Ketel....what is the next step you are taking?

Do you have a multimeter and a propane torch? If so, lets check your 02 sensors.

 

Ok let's get to the bottom of things.

Here is what I was able to find regarding your CEL codes

P0132 - HO2S Circuit High Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 1
P0137 - HO2S Circuit Low Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 2
P0152 - HO2S Circuit High Voltage Bank 2 Sensor 1
P0158 - HO2S Circuit High Voltage Bank 2 Sensor 2
P0341 - Camshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Range/Performance (Bank 1 or single sensor)
P1117 - 02 sensor heater circuit (downstream cat) (bank 1, sensor 2)
P1119 - 02 sensor heater circuit (upstream catalyst) (bank 2, sensor 1)
P1121 - 02 sensor heater circuit (downstream cat) (bank 2, sensor 2)
P1448 - couldn't find anything exact but, reading the archives it has to do with the bypass valve and thermocouple
P1449 - catalyst temperature (vescovini) (bank 2)

Hope that helps.

 

Hi Ernie,

These have been posted before. Other that the O2 heaters I don't think ketel has the tools to diagnose the codes. 1448 and 1449 I would ignore for the time. Could be a bad cat ecu or thermocouple, or could be a result of running rich due to the O2 sensor problems.

 

Ketel,

What tempurature does your coolant stay at once your car has been running for a while? The reason I ask is, if the car runs too cool the ecu will stay in the secondary fuel enrichment, which will cause the cats to over heat. I had that issue with my 348. The coolant temp should be right at the 190°f mark, or in that zone, once it has come fully up to temperature.

Have a read of This thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355/377706-355-owners-only-more-data-samples-needed-anonymous-poll.html

 

P1448 is the bypass valve not opening up.

Check: Air pump. Solenoid. Tubing. Valve. In that order.

P1449 is the drivers side ECU / thermocouple.

Ketel, you really need to get your car to an SD computer. Lots of codes...could be chasing your tail here.

 

Hi Erine,

The codes have been posted before along with some of the more common reasons why they appear. 355s run between 170 and 195 normally. I think about the only thing ketel can do with the tools he has is check the heater element impedance. It's an easy place to start. It was suggested, and explained how, back in the beginning of the original thread. I get the feeling Ketel doesn't have the confidence to do this. I have my doubts about this being resolved DIY. Frankly I would not waste my time trying to figure it out without the necessary tools if it was my car. Some time a penny saved is a penny earned, other times a dollar is well spent. I think this is one of the latter.

 

That's the problem John, you don't want them running anything below 178°f. The ecu (at least on a 348) will not get out of the secondary enrichment until the coolant temperature has constantly remained above 176°f. So if ketel's 355 is running below 176° the a/f mapping will kep dumping extra fuel into the system = over heating cat/thermocouple issue. So that is why I was asking what is running temps where. It wouldn't make sence for him to replace O2 sensors, and thermocouples if the car is gonna still run too cool, because he'll just have the same issue pop up again down the road.

Of course this IF...... His car is running too cool. If not, then he can move on to other things.

One more thing. If it is a case of a bad thermostat it won't be affected by anything electrical, as the t-stat is mechanical.

Ketel doesn't have to tackle this immediately, but it is something worth lookin into.

 

Check that. Typo. 355s are supposed to run between 180 and 195.

 

Thanks Ernie for getting us back on track. Ketel Ernie's point should be considered because myf1 also failed emmisions due to a poor thermostat. Ernie helped me find the problem and the car did pass afterwards . Mine was running on,y about 185 on the gauge and that made the difference. I believe when I was diagnosing it it showed something about the fuel circuit on the obd2 while it was running was in closed or open loop. I cannot remember which. After changing the thermostat it fixed it and idled smoother. I also had many 02 sensor failures, not sure why but for 6 years ever two years to pass emmisions had to change the post sensors. I would start there. I never did check to see if the old ones worked correctly but after replacing my emmisions easily met California standard and this is with a capristo stage 3 and hyper flows.

 

I noticed that in the Factory service manual that the 355 has a separate relay that only powers the O2 heater circuit and fuel pumps.

Anyone think the problem could be here? For instance, if it failed to engage fast enough at start up then engaged....would that tell the ECU that there is issues at the heater circuit? With out steady fuel...would that through a reading on the O2 sensor?

 

Worth taking a look at.

 

With so may CELs the gold kit can not help for sure, but in this situation wouldn't it be best to take the car to a dealer or a proffesional workshop with a proffesional equipment to check this? Because with so many CELs it seems like a not so little issue and too much guessing...

 

it very well COULD have fixed the problem, if the problem was a faulty connection somewhere in the system.

But like we said early on....try to find the problem first. For example, 1)check the function and condition of the o2 sensor. If you can positively determine that they produce between .3 and .9 Volts at a temp reading about 600F then all is well....go to the next probable cause.

At this point, we have yet to see if the o2 sensors were tested.

if its the heating circuit in this o2 system, then check the continuity.

THIS IS ALL SIMLPE STUFF. if you can't do this, then you have no business buying a GCK. Frankly, I would feel unfcomfortable selling it to you if you cant do these simple tasks.

 

It's really in ketel's hands at this point. All the suggestions have been made. As they say, you can lead a horse to water.... I doubt there is anything more FChat can do. Long distance diagnosis generally doesn't work.

 

Sorry, but I can not agree and the reason is simple - the gold kit is not only to repair. I am not a great fan of it either, but I HAVE bought it and I will tell you why: I see it like an insurance. When I install it, I will be sure, that for at least 4 years I will not have any problems, caused by connectors. My car was fine, no CELs at all, but after all - this is a 20 years old car - why shouldn't I update the connectors and also the rubbers (most of them were aged alot).

And sorry, but fixing something, related with 10 CELs in your car is not something I will call simple stuff. I am not a mechanic and that's why I prefer to leave it all to the proffesionals when I have a problem like that. Of course everyone has a different point of view, but that is mine.

 

This is my advice and some will think its wrong but I have changed enough o2 sensors because for some reason they go bad on my car. I do have hyper flow cats mind you. Buy 4 new o2 sensors and change them clear your codes and see what happens. Might want to make sure your cats are either working if their oem or their some after market ones that. Do not wear out. This will cost about as much as taking it to the dealer for an hour or so. I almost positive that if your cats are working it will get ride of atleast many of your codes.

 

Ketel has a problem....let's find it and solve it.

The GCK is the hail marry of the electrical system, so I understand your statement. But, why not just pull the motor and ecus, ship it to ferrari, and send you all new stuff? ....the answer is that it is ridiculous and unneeded.

I personally see your insurance claim as faulty. What happens when you get a bad crimp? You misplace a wire? etc? You are simply adding more variables. If you had no problems, then sure go ahead and risk it. But in this scenario, we have an unsolved problem. The GCK has been done, and we are back to the starting point.

So Rumen....how do we know now if it is the O2 or if it is a problem with the GCK? Do you see that we have now introduced a new variable?

(Personally I think that the GCK is a sham, this is my personal opinion, and you can flame me personally for this....if you are able to do connectors, you can do it yourself for 4 dollars a terminal....but I am trying to help Ketel....so is johnK....all of you others are just offended because you purchased this kit. All of your responses are trying to defend the kit, but you are offering no help to Ketel. It is because none of you really care about helping Ketel, you just want to defend your silly purchases. I also don't see any help, for the record, from the master himself. What I am trying to say is that your last post did nothing to help Ketel, it is simply trying to defend the Gck )

So back to Ketel, I really don't care that you bought this kit, but I do want your car fixed.

So, again what is the latest?