Why do the Ghiblis worth 4 times less than Daytona, Iso Grifo, and Bizzarini ?

IMO the Maserati name was destroyed by De Tomaso,

There was a time when it cost a lot of money to get parts and basic maintenance information on Maserati's, sorry Frank that info should have been free or half the price, so owning a Maserati was VERY expensive for the return on the dollar IE bad investment. Today the internet has helped with both parts and info.

The Iso Grifo and Bizzarrini design was off the hook beautiful, yet the cost to own was cheap. You could drive it hard blow the engine and it would only cost 4-5 K to replace the engine. Laugh if you want but many collectors like the fact that the cars were reliable and cheap to maintain, so it was a car to have in your collection, that equals demand.

Only 100 Bizzarrini's were made so the supply was always short, yet the performance is GTO-ish especially with the Bizzarrini name attached. A true racing car for the street.

I have owned both Ghibli's and Grifo's, the Grifo drives just as good and it was Sooo much easier to maintain and live with.

There were plenty of beater Grifo's running around, it's about the looks and easy maintenance, just what the club had been saying for years.

I have to add that the guys in the Iso club are a great group and they make it enjoyable experience.

De Tomaso destroyed the name and then the Maserati owner was held hostage for parts during the past 15 years it resulted in fewer cars being restored to a high quality, the brand was used and abused.

FYI a Grifo Targa just sold for 330 K and a decent Biz just sold for 700K

 

No offense taken, but you are totally off the mark here. Parts are merely a question of supply and demand.
In order to stock a wide inventory there are cost associated with a part you only get a call for every ten years. A Khamsin wiring harness comes to mind and that very dear and now impossible to have at any price Ghibli turn sig stock.
I recall having the last 10 in the world. as I sold one the 9th cost more than the 10th by the time I got down to the last one, only an insurance company could afford it. When someone else is paying the bill nothing is too expensive.
That was 12 years ago and I am still very proud of what we did at MIE for those 28 years.
FGM

 

I understand where your coming from but the bottom line was that it cost a arm and a leg to own a Maserati, so there is no ROI for the ownership. Iso/Biz had the benefit of inexpensive drive train, Ferrari had the name and resale that equaled to Maserati's owners loss.

So you are correct it's supply and demand but I will add resale value, in that case Ferrari and Iso beat Maserati. Just that simple.

 

Yesssss....I am telling that Detomaso ruined the name Maserati since many mons.

Yesss, the Griffo is a great car.
Yes, the Bizzarini is a great car

....but they are bitsa-cars: their engine was not build, designed inhouse like it was with Ferrari, Lamborghini and Maserati.

For me (!) this cars are not top of the hill....

 

Iso´s and Bizzarini´s didn´t really take off until Bizzarini´s started hit big in historic racing. Add low production numbers and dramatic/beautiful design, and there you have it.

 

I am somewhat surprised that we are complaining about the resale values of our Maserati Cars... It seems to me that if the resale prices were in the realm of Ferrari and Lambo many of us would perhaps not be able to buy and enjoy them, and we would never even see them except at very high-end events! I, for one, am still happy they are where they are, it makes them affordably attainable and it seems I don't have to worry so much about driving them!

I realize some have them for investment purposes as well as enjoyment, but sometimes
you can't have both! Maybe time will prove me wrong, and that's OK to!

My two cents worth! Enjoy them while they are still somewhat affordable!

Mike

 

Just another pretty face, eh?

Alas, the brand dilution continues, as Fiat is recycling the Ghibli name.
Again. (They built a "Ghibli II" as a recycled BiTurbo in the '90s.)
... This time as a four door sedan.

It was bad enough putting the GTV-6 name on a FWD Camry in Italian shoes.

If they hang the Mistral name on an SUV, I might actually favor a drone strike.

 

Interestingly, the Maserati SUV (concept named Kubang), will be named "Levante", which is perfect for a Maserati!

Levante is the Eastern wind (based on the name Levant, of the Eastern Mediterranean).

This is similar to the Mistral, which is the North Western wind.

(attached photo shamelessly stolen from wikipedia)
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

...despite the fact that it had 4 cams from the mid-60s on and double ignition. At that time Ferrari had single cam with standard ignition.
At the end of the 60s the Ferrari 275GTB was superior in driving and performance over the Ghibli due to its transaxle and independent suspension. The car Ghibli had the swing-axle at the rear.

Even the 4.9-Ghibli had that much outdated rear suspension while the next Ferrari GT, the Daytona, still had its transaxle and independent suspension.

The Ghibli was a fantastic car on looks - but from handling and suspension it was much outdated!

 

If you just look at this picture it speaks volumes
.Gallery: Maserati at the 70th Venice Film Festival

 

Double ignition on a Ghibli ... really ??? Walter ... you must have a special version

Ivan

 

They should have named it Ponente...since it will be made in Detroit.
Blah.

 

Walter your avatar is broken. Maybe if had an American V8 it would still be running ...

Come on Walter lot's of storied cars did not make their own engines.

McLaren uses other peoples engines and they're nit exactly chopped liver in the engineering department.

Now Maserati piggybacks with Ferrari even if they do have their own engineer. Without them there would be no Maserati as it exists now.

Nothing wrong with the power plants in those cars you cited when configured properly for a sports car and not for a general delivery van. I think Ford aptly demonstrated that fact to Mr. Ferrari who had to cheat his way to victory in the sports car championship one year when confronted with superiority on the race course. Then came the GT40s.

As for Mr. DeTomaso well he certainly wasn't popular yet some of his cars are highly sought after now and let's face it he did inherit a company in a lot of trouble while being given governmental instructions to employ more people. No one else wanted Maserati enough to pour a ton of money into it.

 

Ivan is absolutely correct. The positive side of this is that these superb cars are attainable for middle class enthusiasts. One does not have to be supremely wealthy to own and enjoy a supreme Maserati.

Frank, you know more than I do, but I would say the Khamsin has increased in value to a certain degree. Today one could easily spend the same money on a project car that would have bought a decent driver ten years ago. This may be due to the work that notre ami Marc has put into expanding the car's reputation.

 

I agree with Walter. I do not understand why Iso, Pantera, Bizzarini, Monteverdi, Intermeccanica, etc., should be more highly valued than Maserati. In the USA market, I can understand they would be more attractive to American guys because of the American engines. But still --other than in the case of very low volume production -- none of those cars should be on par with a Bora or Khamsin.

 

Truth.

 

Its a pity that most of you guys totally forget that Maserati made race cars for a longer period than (classic) Gt-cars. And to buy a 300S, 450s you need deep pockets, very deep pockets....! And each of those cars is "supreme".....

 

Walter,

Don't you think it's probably about even now?
. Race cars through the 1950's and then again over the past ten years, (~ 50 years).
. Road going GT's from the late 1950's through today, (60 years).

Carmine

 

I know we are talking about Ghiblis, but before anybody trashes Iso's, you need to drive either a Rivolta or Grifo. I am very lucky, I own or have owned all the great 60's Italian GT cars. For real world driving, the Grifo is the best of the bunch. No, it does not have the V-12 sound, but it sounds nice. The steering seems hopelessly slow when you read the specs, but is sublime on the road. Iso had a well designed platform chassis and the de dion rear suspension was the best of all the Italian cars. Good Grifos are very hard to find, as, like Alfas, they rusted. Also, they were such great cars that people just used them up. It took me 15 years to find mine and I will die with it.

I think my Ghibli SS is also a wonderful car. Probably the best body quality of the 60's Italian GT's. Great engine and amazing sound for a V-8. Maserati did very well with their solid rear axle suspension. Like the Grifo, a gentleman's express.

We have to remember, that Ferrari, Maserati, Iso and Lamborghini were designed for different types of customers. Most European Maserati buyers were "old" money and would have never been seen in a Ferrari. Ferrari customers were celebreties, sports stars or amateur racing drivers. They were the Lambo's of the day, but too flashy for established money. Iso tapped into the Maserati clients, offering similiar status and speed with enhanced reliability. Lamborghini initially tried to fit into the middle and appeal to both customer bases, but with the Miura, found the "flashy" cars were their best bet for survival.

 

Having worked on Italian cars for 30 years it become clear to me, Maserati cars in General were sold to people who couldn't afford to step up to a Ferrari or lamborghini, they also were the same people who couldn't afford to maintain them even though they need just as much maintanance as other Italian cars of the era, Seems to hold true to this day, The ferrari's i work on the owners are less concerned about the price and more concerned about getting it done correctly, Maserati owner's are more concerned about the price. Let me say for the record: Not all Maserati owners are, shall we say frugal to be polite but they watch the purse strings closely,it's very hard to work on an owners car when their crying about a $50.00 dollar part. In my opinion Maserati build quality in the 70's was very,very good, they just needed some regular service that most never got. As far as i can see they are the best value on the market today, but if your considering buying one and have to ask how much to tighten the cam chains go get something with a chevy or ford engine.

 

This thread is about the Ghibli, not the race cars.

Ivan

 

If we stay on topic ... the Ghibli ... then I do not agree. You have to remember that when new the Ghibli was slightly MORE expensive than the Daytona.The person in 1972 buying a Ghibli versus a Daytona was not trying to save money.

If both cars started at the same price, both had similar build numbers, then why is one now worth 4x the other? I do not think it has anything to do with 8 vs 12 cylinders or independent suspension vs live axle ... it has everything to do with brand image.

BTW: I do agree with your statements as they relate to the new Maseratis, which will further dilute the Maserati brand over time.

Ivan

 

It's simple, cost of ownership

These other Bitza (per Walter) cars often have American engines which are inexpensive to own as opposed to engine rebuilds on exotics costing 25-50 K.


Buyers like the easy maintenance, this creates demand


I agree Maserati deserves to be right there with the F cars but their past history w De Tomaso and difficult to find parts/ high costs have forced the buyers to looks elsewhere.

Watch the Mangusta and Ghia 450 SS take off take off next, Great Giugiaro designs that are easy to maintain.

Is what it is heck even Ivan has come over to the hybrid side.

 

Sure, there was the odd person that had money and good taste that bought the Ghibli but it didn't take long and they got into the hands of the " lunch bucket charlie's". I've purchased a number of these type of cars and for the most part the people that owned them had very little interest in taking care of their investment, they just wanted to sport around town looking good. I'm sure the Ghibli will increase in value as the restoration work improves, the problem is that people will only spend the money on restoration if they get it back when it sells. I'll bet you will see a $350.000.00 Ghibli coupe at auction this year. If i had money to burn i'd buy the Ghibli to drive the Miura to look at and the daytona to take to the track. I'm off to get some lottery tickets!

 

Gooding got $203,000 for a very nice, but not perfect Ghibli SS at Monterey. Car was a very nice Ghibli by today's Maserati standards.