Yes I know, Ferrari were happy to quote 60ms for Scud/16M/GTO. Then DCT came along and Ferrari/McLaren simply say 'seamless' or 'near zero' - now they claim they are going faster than 'near zero' by a percentage! I'm also intrigued why an upshift and a downshift are taking different times - 44% faster than near zero on downshift and 20% faster than near zero on upshift - LOL Yet, Porsche suddenly lets the cat out of the bag and says the new GT3 at 100ms is the fastest DCT - so what is the truth? It seems that times are not being quoted for a reason? % of what?
The difference in time the car had power to the wheels would be a total of 0.3 seconds over the lap, that does not equate to a time saving over a lap of 0.3.
I think you made a wrong assumption, as time off upshifts cannot translate directly in time off lap times! Put it this way: lap a track in a manual shifting car, then deliberately delay 1 sec. on just one upshift, say, close to a point of max speed, that doesn't mean you will be lapping the track 1 full sec. slower, does it?
You are right. It is more complicated than I said. Also Russell996 in his post. All it means is that there would be 1 sec less acceleration time. Let me try another stab at an estimate for how much saving a second in shift time is worth. Suppose the car is delivering an average of 1/2 g = 16 ft/sec^2 at its shift points. Then taking an extra second to shift would 'cost:' 1/2 x 16 = 8 feet relative to an instant shift. Then if the average speed in a lap is 80 mph (117 feet per sec), the real time 'cost' of the shift is only 8/117 = 0.07 sec. Thanks for pointing this out.
Agree the feel is more important. I dont care if its faster by 7 ms. all these DCT systems are so fast i cant tell the difference between scud , 458 and new 981 cs PDK.
Keep in mind that the F12 still has a big straight line advantage. By the way, F1 cars take 20-30 ms for a gear change.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachments/458-italia/1766406d1378161829-458-speciale-revealed-20130902_221124.jpg
Marketing, the F12 should be at the top at Fiorano (except LaFerrari ...). The 458S is in another league compared to the standard 458. The ride height have been lowered and it's a real track toy. Luque
We will discover soon the true. As soon as someone else will track the car in a different race track (not Fiorano of course) we will be able to compare the new infos with the declared numbers.As usual. I am confident about the results..
And the 458 has shift times of 40ms currently, so we can do the deductions quoted to see how fast the shifts will be... 32 ms and 22.4 ms.
The only way to sort out this controversy is to have EVO magazine or somebody else take both cars to any track and do a comparison with the same driver - IMO
Yes... that should happen. I figure the power to weight ratios of the two cars are very close to each other, so I will guess that on a tighter track the lighter 458S will be the victor, while on a very high speed track the raw horsepower of the f12 will dominate.
Absolutely But I got a feeling the Media always wants to be controversial and they will pick a track that favors the Speciale
You have revealed many fine details that I was waiting to find out, thank you very much, I really appreciate it
I think track hounds will really appreciate this, however, for lamen people like me who probably at the peak of my driving skillset can maybe extract 50% of the car's potential, I would very much prefer to feel some sort of "kick" as I blast at full wot from light to light than shaving off milliseconds that the seat-of-my-pants-dyno cannot feel. Hopefully, there's still some kick in the 458S shifts. And JMHO, outside of a track, my desire for Ferrari/exotic ownership: Sensation of performance + sexy looks > actual performance + fancy nannies For 100% seamless shifting, I'll just dust off my Playstation and put on Gran Turismo! It'll save this avg joe a few hundred thousand dollars =D
The sales manager at my dealer just came back from Maranello where he was for the speciale presentation. He said the car sounds amazing and it's going to be a 3-year run, so the 458 successor should not be expected before 2017 in the USA. Good news for us who just got or plan to get a 458 and can enjoy it for a while before the replacement is introduced and resale prices drop a lot.
458S for 3 years? Wow, I wonder how many they will produce....any word on a convertible version and when it would come out? So that is longer than the Scud and CS production...
There goes resale =) I wonder what the folks who said the Scuderia / 16M numbers were too high will say about this.
I have a 458 and the shifts in that are 'practically seamless' - but believe me - the feel and emotion every time I pull that paddle is very apprent. I don't think shortening the shift time is going to detract from driving feeling and emotion, just listen to the shift speed in the 458 GT2 - it's phenomenal and that really is seamless. F12 is also the fastest shifting box to come out of Maranello and the way the engine spools up and generates engine breaking is a beautiful thing!
Where did you get 40ms from, I've not seen any official Ferrari figures - in fact there seem to be absolutely no figures anywhere. You are also assuming the upshift and downshift speeds are currently the same as each other?
I doubt many could feel the difference between 60ms and 40ms. In any case, what makes the 458 gearshift so great is the speed the gearbox responds to the pull on the paddle, not the shift speed itself.
