BTW just got my new Forza today (#129) The Market Update shows: Scud current values at $160-180k Number built N/A 2010 values were $200-225k or 80% of 2010 Scud 16M current values at $220-240k No. built 499 2010 values were $285-325k or 75% of 2010 so percentage wise the Scud has held its value slightly better than the 16M. Let's call it a tie. the 458S should hold their values about the same % over the same period (3-4 yrs)
It is not valid to compare the loss from new of the 16M against an already depreciated start figure for the Scud and then suggest the Scud has held it value better. Having said that, scud is looking great value and prices have held very firm for a couple of years (UK). People are really starting to realise what an astounding car they are.
and me as well. I think the Forza numbers tell us that 16M has not been a resale super performer and the Scud has done better than I had assumed from others comments.
I had expected the 458 run to be longer than usual. The successor is likely to run a KERS system, perhaps with turbocharger (hopefully not). Lots of development is needed to achieve performance and reliability as this will be the first real 'production' KERS car.
Anybody else notice that the rear has some obvious vents near the tail lights in the side shot, yet they're non existent in the rear/overhead shots? Also, the tail pipes are off-kilter and the space between the rear tires and the diffuser differ on either side yet the roofline is straight.
No idea. If the idea is that the camera and car are a few degrees off to create different angles down the exhaust pipes then you'd assume the roofline to be off as well. But it isn't. And I don't know what the hell is going on with those odd vents in the profile shot when you compare it to other photos of the car. And the video doesn't yield anything - I looked. Not sure, other than if a user posted these here and somebody came out with noticing details as I have, there would be Photoshop accusations all over the place.
I didn't ask because I don't care about the speciale as a buyer (and don't think I could get one soon even if I did). I just stopped by to say hi and ask his impressions about the car he saw in person. This car has new technology (transmission, brakes, aerodynamics and handling), so it makes sense they would want to make it a slightly longer run. Also, spider lists are still long, it will take 2+ years at least to fulfill the pent up demand. Why would they leave money on the table on such a successful model and launch a new one, which will be way more advanced. Is there any worthy competition to worry about currently? no. For me, all that matters is the 458 base model cycle. If it is going to be longer than usual, I may swap for a spider at some point. I haven't decided yet and I absolutely love the coupe.
That's great news for those of us awaiting delivery of our 2014 Spiders. 458 replacement spider wouldn't arrive until 2018 so that's 4 years+ to enjoy the current model. Turbo and KERS may render this whole decision irrelevant.
I don't think they will produce 458S in just 1 year...maybe 3 years to produce italia, spider and S but hopefully they will limit 458S to avoid over production like Scud.
I figured they would go limited run like CS but yearly allocations would be scarce if they stretched this over 3 years. I'm just happy 458 model run will be longer than 430, I can enjoy my spider for 4+ years without worrying about procuring the latest and greatest.
Could you be more precise or post a picture? I really don't see any vents near the anywhere in any view! As for the rear view angle, if I'm understanding you, it's very, very slightly off center. So little off that it doesn't even reflect on the roof stripe, if that's what you meant.
Using "typical" or "average" MSRP and average used model/condition and ignores high mileage and no mileage outliers. 08 scud = $290, now $175. 40% 09 scud = $300, now $185. 38% 09 16m = $340, now $240. 29% And, of course, these are rough, and there are plenty of used cars selling above or below the prices I used here. But, based on my following of these markets over the past two years, these are ball park correct. 16m has held value better to date, both in dollars and percentages. Historically scuds fell off a cliff from circa $300 to $190 in only 2 years. Since 2011 they have been pretty flat. 16m stayed in the upper $200s (say $250-$280) until recently. So they held much better at first, and only recently have started to catch up with the scud. Looking ahead, now that 458 spiders are out we see an increase in used 16m for sale. Spider availability is tight and they are pricey, but that will begin to settle down. So, I expect 16m prices to soften a bit quicker than scuds in the coming year. Perhaps the depr vs MSRP will be virtually the same in a year. I don't expect to see scud prices fall tons in one year when Speciale starts showing up in the US. But then I'm guessing the Speciale is $330 MSRP with carbon options (even that would be up only 10% on scud 5 years later, so it could be higher...). All of this is US market only.
I noticed that engine internals have been extensively modified in the 458S. And according to reports (post 720) there will be extensive x-ray testing of critical components. This is consistent with a very significant price bump.
My question is how will the performance and pricing of the F12 compare to the 458S? both are coupes. one if front engine, more of a GT other is mid engine, more of a track car that can be driven on the street will the 458S be faster than the F12 on the track? Stay tuned.
