True... references are just that...references The information provided is for all to see and absorb. Its pretty strong when pictures taken in period are attached to a vin. Photo courtesy of Hubert Terrier Image Unavailable, Please Login
The 375 Plus #0384AM has some very distinctive traits. Compare the pictures and description of post 971 with the race photos taken at the Gran Prix d' Agadir. The car raced at Agadir is listed as #0384. In post #971 the 375 Plus models are listed with chassis numbers. I failed to see chassis number 0386AM in that list. Do you think it possible that.... this is a phantom number? I looked at the list of 375 America, Spider Competizione and failed to find chassis number 0386AM. Whats going on? Image Unavailable, Please Login
That 35 year old list from the Michael Frostick Pininfarina book is completely outdated and inaccurate. Marcel Massini
0386AM was destroyed when that list was created. 0384AM is easy to trace. First race at the Giro di Sicily with a front end accident resulting a unique repair to the front end. For the MM, it's race number 545. Features the changed front grille and the headlights. The rear brake inlets are closed (with exposed rivits) and the notched headrest. Other tells are four rivets to the right side of the dash, 2/1/2 gauge layout, a Pininfarina logo without script and three eared knock offs (though those could certainly have been changed along the way). I believe that 0386AM is the car in the PF studio photos and the Agadir GP winner. It shows brake ducts open in both photos, five rivets to the right of the dash, two eared knock offs and a PF logo and script. The ducts were closed by the MM where it wore race number 606. Other changes for the MM are a 0384 style dash configuration (likely due to the speedo and rev counter being blocked in the original 1/3/1 layout). Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
More details of 0384 at Silverstone, an additional shot of 0386 at the MM and cockpit detail in the studio. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
That list documents production pretty much as it happened. As renumbering was an essential part of how things were handled in those days, the result might look a little confusing unless you sort it out properly. It seems to me that nobody has cared to do that really, which I find quite pecualiar concidering what the cars are worth today!
This is just part of the challenge and enjoyment of the hunt. Where would we be with the Echeveria cars or some of those chassis discovered in South America. And the band played on. tongascrew
Yes, I wish someone would sort out all the 375MM numbers. I once had custody of what was titled as 0378, but some expert in Europe chastised me, telling me that I had never owned the real 0378. It seems as if about half of them suffered number changes. I'm sure someone out there has all this info.
The list attached to post #1003 does not include chassis # 0386 A much earlier, hand written list, supplies the same information. View at http://paulrussell.com/articles/375MM_0382AM.pdf Scroll down to page 12 and compare. Can someone post the build job number of #0386? Can anyone supply the date of manufacture for # 0386 Does anyone have the updated list showing the inclusion of #0386? How is it that the 375 Plus (# 98)of John Edgar appears to have the long nose, recessed headlight configuration with headrest? Are there more than 1 Ferrari 375 plus cars that lay claim to that bodywork? Photo courtesy of Jack McAfee Collection Image Unavailable, Please Login
you should be looking at car #98 in the background... which is the larger of the two cars ... the car in the foreground is definitely much smaller ... anyone standing near it would appear to be of larger stature
Can't remember this story, what kind of car was it - or did you confuse with 0376AM? Best wishes, Kare PS. That Moretti 750 is one of my all time favorites. What a sweet little car!!!
The #98 of John Edgar is the 410S #0598CM currently with Roegr Willbanks IMO quite a different animal altogether. 1955 works racers used Scaglietti bodywork that was a progression on the Pininfarina bodywork of 1954.
True........... very true. John Edgar owned a 410 Sport..race #98..... chassis # 0598CM Refer to picture in post # 1010, that is John Edgar's 375 plus.... also race # 98 taken at Grand Central Airport in Glendale California 11-13-1955 That chassis number is # 0396AM and features the same frontal treatment as #0384AM. Photo courtesy of Jack McAfee Collection #1 photo of 375 plus #0396AM #2 photo of 410 sport # 0598CM Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Edgar's Plus was re-bodied by Scaglietti following the tragic accident in the Carrera. When it arrived in North America it had vertical Mondial style headlights. Your photo in Glendale shows a clear photo of the Scaglietti badge.
True... John Egar's Ferrari 375 Plus #0396AM was involved in an accident resulting in body restoration including the frontal transformation of #0396AM. That work, we can safely say, was performed by scaglietti as per the distinct body style coupled with scaglietti's signature emblem. Ferrari 375 Plus chassis # 0384AM was also an accident victim that resulted in the same distinct style including the frontal transformation as evidenced in photos. IMO that work has scaglietti written all over it. With that said... There are more than one 375 Plus's that can lay claim to distinctive long nose/ recessed headlight configuration versus the original blunt nose.
This is a quick reminder that this thread is a discussion about a car. A new user registered recently and posted nothing but a personal attack against another user. For those who saw it and/or commented on it, that post and all posts quoting it have been deleted and the newly-registered user has been banned. Heated discussion is fine, but don't forget that there are rules of conduct that must be respected.
All As you may know, the parties to the Ohio Court litigation (Swaters, Lawson, Ford), plus a financier (Gardner)and Bonhams 1793 Ltd (Bonhams), reached an agreement called the Heads of Agreement or HOA which set in motion a settlement process. The Ohio Court approved of the HOA and issued its Aug 19, 2013 Order to move things along. Media picked up the Ohio Court Order and reported the above, somewhat inaccurately. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130826/NEWS0107/308260019/Auction-end-fight-over-Ferrari London auction will end fight over vintage Ferrari The Ohio Parts to 0384AM, all circa 1957 with original 1957 paint from 0384AM's last race at the Gran Prix de Cuba, should already be in London at Bonhams by now. So too with the original Ohio title, documenting Kleve's ownership of 0384AM since his acquisition of 0384AM in 1958. As is now evident, there was not enough time to place 0384AM and the Ohio Parts in the auction as contemplated in the HOA, so I expect the parties to work out a new private sale terms, or new auction terms. An appeal of the Aug 19, 2013 Order has been filed, but I do not expect it to eliminate the private sale or auction as an objective. Some of the parties (Swaters and myself) are still filing motions in Ohio to resolve some loose ends. I expect that will also resolve itself soon. The above is all verifiable and in the public record. So, if any of you know some astute collectors who want to own perhaps the most distinguished Ferrari big-block racer, a real beast in its day, complete with video documented race history and some dead original parts that give 0384AM bragging rights to originality that none of its sister 375 Plus racers can claim, all of which are already enshrined in billionaires collections . . . . 0392AM owned by Italian gum and candy billionaire Giorgio Perfetti, 0396AM owned by the late Pierre Bardinon's family, and 0398AM owned by clothier billionaire Ralph Lauren . . . . well . . . stay tuned . . . If anyone (Marcel) has an update as to current owners of sister cars, please chime in. And moderators Rob and Wayne, thanks for keeping the thread clean and on track. Joe *
Thanks for the update, how about I offer $5 and a half drunk bottle of Jack Daniels. Seriously is good to see the whole affair moving to settlement and the only major negative is the impending end to one of the best threads in Vintage. As an interested bystander thanks so much to everyone that has contributed so much to make this a story worthy of a hollywood epic.
This is great! I can't wait to see the images of the car reunited with the missing parts!! Do you know when the auction will be held?
All Well, that breather lasted all of about a week. An appeal was filed but I thought that would get worked out. But, just when I thought it was smooth sailing, a new lawsuit in Ohio is filed whereby the financier with a contingent lien interest (i.e. Christopher Gardner) now claims 100% of the Ohio proceeds - yep, you heard it right, Gardner is now claiming 100%. So, I cancelled my Power of Attorney with Bonhams (please spread the word as I don't want another Belgian buyer claiming he bought 0384AM already LOL) and I put all on notice as to Gardner. Meet Gardner's attorney even included my son in the lawsuit. Geeze. Let's meet Gardner's attorney, with a courtesy introduction by the Supreme Court of Ohio - Cincinnati Bar v. Gottesman, 115 Ohio St.3d 222, 2007-Ohio-4791. Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
