Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Yes but,
This is the discussion that still I had as a supplier.
Doing Reliability growth means testing an OTOP components in the final configuration of the car for thousand kilometers and in different conditions.
It rarely happens, believe me. They change a lot and very close to the start of production
Porsche approach is quite different and more methodic.
In this area Ferrari can improve.

Luque

 

No, but at least we've seen it being tested properly and on more than one track.

 

Engine weight tell almost nothing of how an engine is technologically
advanced until we can compare two engines the same configuration (displacement and accessories see variable intake geometry)

Corvette's engine are lighter than the F136FB Ferrari despite they have more displacement ...

Luque

 

Hats off to Porsche and its technology

Waiting to discover the 918's engine, Check your facts too

International Engine of the Year Awards 2013

International Engine of the Year Awards 2013

BMW and Mercedes got more awards than Porsche

 

Sure more demanding than track in an Airport

Yous should learn something about Ferrari' history

Fiorano was created as a merge of different parts of 70's F1 track to test single seater.

Luque

 

Good points one and all ( 458 engine is UNDOUBTEDLY a work of art ) but please remember the 918 engine has to "cold start and stop " ( activate and deactivate immediately ) due to the hybrid modes . To to have the longevity of a "production engine" ( one of the goals ) some safety had to be built in to it , I also believe the engine is around 60kg lighter than the 458's and features numerous interesting features ( no belts etc ) as well as having to perform functions the 458s doesn't ( doubling as a generator ) so perhaps just looking at selected figures and not the whole picture does not really tell the whole story .

I do not want to get dragged into which manufacturers engines actually make/do not make or beat the quoted figures like earlier in the thread .

Im not sure I agree with this . A corvette engine is arguably no way near as complicated as a Ferrari Engine so I agree you would expect it to be lighter .
However the 918s engine is as complex ( if not more so ) than the 458s as well as having to perform in different ways , so to be so much lighter is actually very impressive .

 

918 has 610 hp and 4.6 litres V8 so that makes 132.61 bph/l compared to the 132.44 of the 458S' from its 596 HP 4.5 litres V8. And you are right about the torque, though 918 does not need much torque from the engine as they have 2 electric motors backing it up making the total torque of the system 940 lb.-ft. ot 1275 nm. You get the point.

 

Porsche says that the 918 engine weighs 140 kilos. Does anyone know how much Ferrari's weighs?

 

I have used metric horsepower and the respective figures are 605 for the Speciale and 616 for the 918. The equivalent in BHP is 597 (445 KW) and 608 (453 KW). No matter how you get to look at it, the Speciale has a marginal advantage.

 

458 engine's dry weight is over 180kg.

 

I don't think that the 918's engine hp number is "final"

I've heard around 630 hp from the V8 in final 918 hp overall form.

 

And I see people, dead people...

 

I hope its at LEAST 630 and preferably closer to 640-650..After all this is a limited production-limited use hypercar

 

It won't be so highly stressed for reasons I have already explained ..
FYI the 918 is not intended for limited use it's made to do big miles and be used regularly .

 

Yea, that's what all three manufacturers are hoping. The batteries will not last if they aren't used regularly. Unfortunately, as we all know, these cars will not be daily drivers. That's the whole reason that these systems hardly make any sense for almost all users. If the batts do last given the average use of these cars, I'll be amazed. Engineering magic, I say!

 

Whats the probability of all the manufacturers increasing the HP on their cars before they are truly in production?

 

I'm very familiar with the systems in the 918 , I did a lot of talking to the engineers , flew out to weissach , Leipzig and Stuttgart several times .
The systems in the 918 surprised me , I drove her hard on track and went back in with as much e power as I started with ( actually slightly more ) . Porsche also will support the car offering lighter more powerful battery packs as technology improves . I plan to do big miles in mine but agree with you about most owners not using them much at all.

 

I think this is a serious thing to consider and personally think Porsche will be most reasonable of the three as far as battery life, warrantee and replacement cost.

 

Yes I was told 9 year warranty and upgrades with the march of technology (although we will probably have to pay for them but that's fair enough ).

 

9 year warranty is VERY impressive.

 

Yes 9 years on batteries and related systems . That's some serious confidence .

 

All Porsches are. There is not a better engineered car on the road or race track IMO.

There is a reason why 911's dominate race tracks all over the world, including classic racing. The only other brand that comes close to being as popular at classic race meetings is Alfa Romeo and that is because they are reliable race cars but also because their owners are Alfisti and would not race/drive anything else ... and keep fixing and enjoying them.
Pete

 

Interesting info on the expected ownership experience. I'm sure that a lot of it has been done to maximize marketing impact, but Porsche has been logging thousands upon thousands of testing miles with 25 mules in many different conditions around the world. Surely there has to be major engineering benefits for the final product. McLaren and Ferrari are competing with a relentless and thoughtful development program (as you'd expect from Porsche). I share the concerns about the long-term ownership experience and servicing challenges. I love hearing that Porsche is presuming that their cars will be driven and engineering and planning accordingly. No doubt they'll charge for the privilege, but they don't want to have their name associated with expensive paperweights down the road...

With all of that said - I'm really interested in seeing the 961 version that strips out all of the hybrid gadgetry. That could be the real spiritual CGT successor. Also hoping that the 961 finds its way to racetracks and races like the N24.

 

911s dominate? Ahh, yes they fielded a works entry at Le Mans (at no holes barred expense) with Romain Dumas and won against other non works teams. Same at Spa 24 hours but lost to Mercedes.

Now if you look at the Pro-Am and Gentleman categories, where there are no works cars and only customer cars, Porsche rarely make it to the podium.....and the winners usually drive Ferraris..... By the way, in the Blancpain Endurance Series which is the most competitive GT series in the world Ferrari dominate in Pro-Am and Gentlemen , notwithstanding all the Porsches, Mercedes, McLarens, BMWs etc

As to classic racing, well it's classic racing .... Not real 10/10ths...

So stick to a Porsche forum where fantasy might seem like reality!!

 

Porsche 918 2+2 coupe under consideration | Autocar