Ferrari's at goodwood revival? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Ferrari's at goodwood revival?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Ricardo, Sep 14, 2013.

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  1. Maxige

    Maxige Karting

    Jun 5, 2005
    189
    London/Milan
    Full Name:
    Max
    To be honest, I totally disagree.

    I'm sure Sir Bamford know very well the risk involved in having his cars raced at Goodwood and that is part of the beauty of this wonderful event...seeing cars like these driven as they should be and as they always have been back in the days!

    For different people (whom I totally respect) there are places like Pebble Beach or Villa d'Este where they can be sure no arm will be done to their cars...

    Having your car raced by a professional racing driver in one of the most competitive vintage car's race in the world you have to know and accept that something could very likely go wrong. I'm quite sure Sir Bamford totally priced in that risk and Jean Alesi discussed with him the worst case scenario before accepting the seat!
     
  2. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2008
    1,111
    London
    Full Name:
    Kim
    +1

    These cars were built to be raced and not polished. Lets hope that owners like Bamford will continue to permit their cars to be raced for the enjoyment of all
     
  3. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    950

    Then better race the ex Monteverde's cars than well preserved ones!
    Still I believe that between PB and banging cars, there is a place for competitive racing without pushing beyond the limit. When his Bizzarini was cut into 2 pieces by Martin Stretton, at Goodwood, I can tell you Albuquerque was not happy. May be he was aware of the risk, but he did not think it would end up with a quasi total write off. And when I talked to him few month after, he was still quite upset!

    Because when you have an accident, or you hit another competitor, you know where it starts, but never know where it ends, race cars don't always have predictable trajectories, as the Le Mans accident of Allan Simonsen will remind us.

    And when my ( usual) co driver who is a former test driver took the LM under heavy rain at LMC, we agreed that of course he would have no responsibility in case something happens, but we also agreed that he would take it easy to avoid getting off track.

    Call it racing with sense of responsibility if you wish, to maintain a very original car in good condition...there are enough cars that have been destroyed when racing to use those rebodied cars for ultra competitive racing and race properly the other ones.
     
  4. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 30, 2006
    1,929
    europe
    Full Name:
    oscar
    very true,
    there is nothing to win in classic races. Although it is nice to see 25 old race cars starting from he grid the spectators wont see the difference between driving it to the limit or with respect. Most racers promise absolute carefulness until they are unleashed at the track...balls take over the brains......
    But even on track days some people don't show respect or are only busy with themselves......

    ciao
    Oscar
     
  5. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    Thanks to all for your pictures.

    My original doubt has not been cleared. Where there rebodied/Replica/Recreations racing or where all of these originals? Even the c types/D types/ Gt40´s where all original? Anyone know?

    It seems to me with current trends of calling replica bodies to cars that have been crashed and rebuilt within their original specification will drive these cars away from the grids.
     
  6. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,464
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    Excellent post! It IS possible to race hard and competitively with regard not only to what you are racing but without undue risk of contact.

    "Agency syndrome." I like that. Describes many a pro sports car drivers attitude here in the US...
     
  7. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    +1
     
  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    The "MK-IV" was a replica.
     
  9. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    Thanks Jim. Still, only one in ten´s of cars is quite unbelievable.
     
  10. SteviePPS

    SteviePPS Karting

    May 11, 2013
    69
    EU
    Full Name:
    Steve Warson
    Wonderful explanation! Agree totally, from other side of the table!

    About the LM at LMC mentioned in the other post, was it racing with number 28? Thank you for getting a lot of laps in then, your laps counted for us too!
     
  11. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2008
    1,111
    London
    Full Name:
    Kim
    This is not the comment associated with someone who races. My rebodied tdf raced in the Fordwater yesterday. We lost second gear and finished thirteenth and Max in the other tdf drove his socks off and came third. The crowd loved it and two tdf's on track was a Goodwood first.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxdiiXs81rw]1959 Ferrari 250 Tour de France at the Goodwood Revival. - YouTube[/ame]

    Two points.

    Most racers do not want to damage their cars and are respectful of others. Most owners will not give their car to a driver that does not look after their car. There will always be idiot drivers and idiot owners that let them race but racing is risky and even the most respectful driver can be undone.

    Because values are increasing there are fewer owners that are willing to risk their original cars in a race. The result is preservation and fewer valuable cars racing and more replicas being used. The dilemma is that building a replica encourages the breaking of older cars. Preservation ? You can't have it both ways.

    Kim
     
  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    #37 Marcel Massini, Sep 16, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    #38 Ricardo, Sep 16, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
    Hi Kim,

    I tried to look up details on your rebodied car by running a search here on Fchat and did not find much. I am very curious about rebodies, can you give us some details on your car? Also, how would you compare your car to the other raced by max girardo one in terms of speed and lap times at goodwood this weekend?

    EDIT: Found part of my answer: your car qualified at 1.45.353 and max at 1.44.113. Any ideas on where the time difference came from? :) The actual question is if a rebodied car is as fast as a original car and has the same driving experience (I am on the side that hopes your answer is yes:) )

    Cheers!
     
  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,017
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    #39 miurasv, Sep 16, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  15. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    950
    and you know what you are talking about! Pictures?
    Sorry to remind you some sad memories!
    Cheers
    P
     
  16. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    950
    #41 BIRA, Sep 16, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    yes it was this car, here it is. Pictures copyright Nicolas Jeannier and Lord Brett and Steve Flynn for Goodwood. And both of us were carefull and did not end up like FM and some others. It is true though that we dont drive as fast and possibly as well as he does. But we own our cars, with our money, and beyond racing, we think of what will be left to the next generation...
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  17. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2008
    1,111
    London
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    Kim
    #42 Enigma Racing, Sep 16, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    My first posts cover the details and the mauling I get when I talk about it.

    Max was driving 0733GT which was rebuilt for the race and has a much hotter engine and bigger carbs. We posted a 1.44 in qualifying and retired at P7 only to see Max out qualify us and take our position. We lost second gear at the start and dropped to 16th which was a disadvantage is several sections including the chicane. Managed to lap 1.43 to get back to 13th but Max was a lot quicker a took 6 seconds (ave speed 85.67 mph) off the qualifying time, battled back to take a well deserved third. Beaten by 16s by Smithies Healey and 2nd place 6s Jochan Mass in a Gull Wing (He's better in German car then an Italian one). The owner was as thrilled as the driver and it was their first podium finish at Goodwood and I lost a battle of Claret on the wager.
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  18. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,799
    Santa Fe, NM
    Surely you understand that there is something in between polishing a vintage racer as a static display and 10/10 racing that inevitably results in harm to irreplaceable cars? We have won at Pebble Beach, and have also tracked our 500 Mondial (as recently as last month at Road America), but not in a "competition" setting. I can assure you that everyone there got to see/hear/smell the car in its natural habitat without risking damage from a competitor looking for a trophy. I think I would be even more reluctant to be on the track in a race setting that mixed truly historic cars with replicas - they simply don't have the same skin in the game, literally.
     
  19. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,017
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    Steven Robertson
    #44 miurasv, Sep 16, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
    No disrespect to you, Kim but your car is not a rebodied TdF, but a rebodied 250 GT Pinin Farina Coupe #1069GT, and I believe these are the details that the OP was looking for which you didn't divulge when given the opportunity to answer the question. If you referred to it as such then you wouldn't get such a mauling. You even referred to the genuine TdF 0733GT as "the other TdF" and comments like "......and two tdf's on track was a Goodwood first" is going to understandably annoy some people, especially the owners of genuine cars.
     
  20. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    From a twitter post by max, isnt the owner Chris Evans? Who has a TR reproduction?

    I think your car is very cool. And you must have had a blast at goodwood. Thanks for your post!
     
  21. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    Very reasonable perspective about "skin in the game". My point,as a bystander that loves cars, is how to competitively race vintage cars, and I mean cars, like 60´s Ferrari´s that have enormous value, and indeed their "skin" may be somewhat irreplaceable without losing part of the history. I love watching the four wheel drifts around goodwood, in a way, not replicable with today´s racing cars. What´s your take?
     
  22. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    693
    The Jochen Mass pictures are not really relevant to this discussion; firstly because he is a very careful driver, and secondly because the Lancia crash was caused by getting his feet caught in the pedals..........so things happen that are accidental to how they drive. In the last 2 years Gerhard Berger and Martin Brundle wrecked the same AC Cobra........this year the owner and his son drove to third position.

    As well as the MkIV which was J9, originally a G7A Can-Am roadster, in the GT40 race there were apparently 4 non-original cars. There were several other original cars present which paraded only.

    There were no TRs this year, real or recreation....

    It's not just Ferraris and GT40s where originality is not compulsory at Goodwood - as well as the Sharknose recreation that has raced in the Glover Trophy there are usually a BRM and a couple of Lotus's built from very small amounts of remains of the crashed originals.

    And Brian Lister says there are far more Lister-Jaguars and Lister-
    Chevs around than he ever built....yet when he wanted to build, quite openly, some 'continuation' cars he was told they wouldn't be accepted by the FIA..........

    Paul M
     
  23. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2008
    1,111
    London
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    Kim
    Total disrespect in my book and I get fed up being lectured about how or how not to describe my car. Robodied tdf is shorthand and I have adequately described what both cars are in my post.

    You can add "using many original parts including grill, bonnet and boot lid" to your definition if it makes you happy
     
  24. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2008
    1,111
    London
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    Kim
    Not his car but prep'd by his mechanic and indeed he has a TR61 rep
     
  25. Onebugatti

    Onebugatti Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Apr 2, 2008
    288
    Centre Europe
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    Christopher
    +1
     

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