Visit to ZF in Friedrichshafen Monday

I am writing from Friedrichshafen in the south of Germany.
The ZF Classic Department has reserved for me a very nice Hotel at a very low price.
I will meet the the head of the Dept on Monday at 10AM.
At that time I will hand over to them (2) S4.17 transmissions.
They have indicated that the top man for these boxes will join us to have a look at them while we are having a Tour and lunch.

The guys in Modena were not able to correct the problems and one person in particular was a source of great frustration for me not to mention the Euros I had to pay, meaning (over charged) ie reamed.
I said screw this and packed the two boxes into my little Fiat Punto along with all my luggage and headed north to Verona and the Brennor pass to Innsbruck Austria, then on to Friedrichshafen the next day.
To say that "I suffer for my transmissions" is an understatement.
I will provide a full report in a day or two.
Ciao,
FGM

 

Frank, thank you. I wish that I was there with you, to share the suffering/frustration. I do appreciate your efforts.

 

Frank,

I'd say your efforts are heroic, I wish I was there (with my two S4.17) to share the experience, and the ZF "tour".

If I had known I could have brought parts with the "Car Guy Tour", I may have made the trip. Maybe next year.

More updates are always appreciated.

Ciao and best.

~Trev

 

No one in the USA can work on these boxes?

 

NO.
FGM

 

What a sacrifice to have to go to Bavaria just in time for Octoberfest !

 

ZF S5-20 Getriebe im Maserati 3500 GT

 

Frank,

This may sound like sacrilege to you ... but I wonder if a more modern gearbox could be easily adapted and used on the 3500GT. With Jaguars it is quite common for people to get rid of the archaic four speed Moss box and put in a modern 5-speed unit.

Perhaps the folks at ZF can recommend an easily available gearbox that bolts on to the original Maserati bell housing.

Ivan

 

Ivan, I am stunned that you -- of all people -- would say such a thing. Have you been drinking?

 

Perhaps just "shifting" positions?

 

Ivan, I may have what your are looking for. New production.

PM me if interested.

~Trev

 

and thank u again for a special, 'Car Guy Tour'. and experience that would b impossible without your knowledge and experience. as to no one being able to fix your transmission? I seriously question that statement. I think u just needed and excuse to see ZF.

 

Actually I had been thinking about something similar.
In about 1 hour I will be meeting with them and will ask about changing the gears inside to something more available. Similar to what you are suggesting except using the existing case and tail shaft.
FGM

 

All I can say is WOW! what a visit to the Classic Dept.
My expectations were met and then some.
FGM

 

This all sounds great! Please, let's be out in the open with any & all conversions. After all, we need to keep these cars running.
RF.

 

In English. ZF Friedrichshafen AG | Spares for Classic Cars: The S 5-20 Project

 

Looks like what everyone here was asking for.

 

Here are some photos of the ZF Classic Dept.
Sorry fellas but the new S5-20 transmissions are being made for an early Mercedes and will NOT fit the Maseratis.

I learned a lot about the problems with these early boxes, mostly the fact that the parts situation is a nightmare. Even the brilliant minds at ZF cannot go to a bin and pick out the correct part with out using a veneer caliper and checking it against a drawing of which there are several for the same box.
This is a very big problem.
The take a way is this "Change your gearbox oil often" and be gentle with those gears.

We had a discussion on which parts they should reproduce - they are reproducing some spares for the S4-17 and the S5-17 - but again it is not easy as they need to go to an outside supplier in order to do small production runs while keeping ZF quality standards.

The bad parts in my transmission will take several months to get made if at all and will be finished some time in Feb.
We made an agreement that if they could not perform they would buy my box and use it for parts.
Not worth shipping it back.
Marks transmission should be reassembled on Wed and bench tested on Thursday and ready for the return flight on Monday or Tue.
His fix was fairly straight forward. Seems there were some parts installed in reverse order and other small bits off by 90 degrees.
Anyone who tells you he can fix these boxes should be prepared to refund 100% of what he charged.
Having said that there is a certain degree of luck. Such as the box never being opened before.

More later when I can get a high speed internet connection.
From Beaune (Burgundy) France
Ciao,
FGM

 

Well this is an outtake from that link. It clearly identifies Maserati so that's a bit of a mystery then?

"The 'reproduction' S 5-20 project was concluded successfully: On the basis of original spare part kits, ZF is now also offering the option to changeover the 4-speed to a 5-speed transmission. And many customers, who were looking for more riding/driving comfort and fun with lower speeds and economic fuel consumption, have already filed their orders. Moreover, the respective repair kits are provided including the corresponding synchronizer, bearing, and seal/gasket sets. These components have also been installed i.a. in various Maserati vehicles such as the Mistral (6-cylinder version) and also in the 4.2 liter version of the Quattroporte GT."

My oldest ZF is the transaxel in the Bora and ZF sold the rights to RBT Transmissions so there's no problem getting parts for that as well as a 6 speed version. It only requires lots of money ...

 

Frank, thank you again. I am thrilled that ZF came through. I hope that they are able to get your box fixed. It would be nice for you to have a spare, since getting them repaired appears next to impossible. With your collection of 3500s, it would probably give you some peace of mind....in addition to changing oil often and being gentile on the gears.
I am so relieved that they are able to fix my gearbox. I do not know what I would have done if they couldn't. This was really the last resort. I really appreciate all that you have done.
I think that Ivan has the right idea....it would be nice to find out if there is another gearbox that could be used in our cars. My car has been done for a year, but the gearbox has prevented me from driving it (other than around the block a few times).

 

Be careful changing from a ZF. Your tranny tunnel might come out looking like this.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

if I have your old sample gears I can make every part 2-3 months turnaround. material would b tool steel. need parts to price. pricing in two weeks from receipt

 

A lot of interesting information on the ZF gearboxes. Thanks, it least I know there are possibilities that my auto gearbox would be able to be repaired if I ever have problems.
Fortunately, everything is running well.

 

Mitch,

I'b be interested in seeing your shop set up. You hob the gear teeth yourself? Can you do spiral and bevel gears as well as spur? Post some photos of your equipment, or working with it, etc,,

Carmine

 

I'm wondering what the different ZF designations are. What is the correct ZF # for the early 4spd 3500 GTs, for the later 5spd OD 3500 GTs, and say for the Mistrel? Are they all interchangeable from car to car?
Also, does anyone have any first hand experience running a synthetic oil like Red Line, or Ams Oil in their ZF, or rear end?
Many Thanks, RF.