David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

I hope you're wrong.

 

If there's money in it it'll be resurrected.

 

Theres no money in it hence why its reverted back to any earlier guise. No doubt someone could rebody a rep with the can am body is they liked the look.

Whoever would have bought this car would not have left it as it was, Jim included I imagine, maybe he can confirm what his plans would have been?

 

Irony was implied.


The worm turns and someday someone with the wherewithal will recreate, as best he can, what was lost.

The one saving grace may be that Piper is known never to throw anything away. So the bits may still be there.

 

Of the 3 (or is it 4?) Vaccari made P4 continuation 0900 chassis that David Piper had made, is there one left over not being used? If so the 0858 Can Am parts could be installed on that, provided there is still a spare tipo 247 Can Am 350 engine and tipo 603R gearbox?

Or Vaccari & Bosi could make a new tipo 603C chassis? http://www.vaccariebosi.com/veb/index.htm

 

Sorry but that makes no sense. Then we'd have 2 wrong cars instead of the right one.

The body will be kept with the car, thankfully. It's not Piper's property.

 

In other words we take one legit car and make two fakes. This is not progress.

 

I realize this was sarcastic but I wouldn't count it out.

Markets change. Future collectors might prefer originality and rarity over recreated glory. And we have no idea where the market for this car will be at. It remains un-sold. If it were a 25 million dollar car it would have sold already. It didn't sell at 10 million-ish as a real Can Am maybe it wont sell at that as fake P4. Hopefully the market now realizes this car for what it is and isn't willing to pay a premium for a couple hundred thousand or so of botched recreation work. Hopefully in the end the car, when the smoke clears and knowledge is gained, is worth more to a collector as a real car versus a hodge-podge.

We're not talking about a small amount of money here. I don't feel like alot of people are gonna want to spend 10+ for something that is kind of a Ferrari. At the price range my guess is people don't want a car that even Ferrari themselves says it isn't.

Sure a P4 may be more desirable to most collectors. But I hope what didn't enter the minds of the butchers before they decided to do this and tried to sell it was that a REAL P4 is worth more to collectors and a real Can Am is worth more then a Can Am with some P4 norwood-esque body parts. Hopefully as the market matures it will respect reality over fantasy.

No offense to Norwood. I really respect what he does. But he is not trying to charge you 15 million for a couple hundred thousand worth of parts. I like his machines. Would love to own one and drive it like mad. Think he does a great job with them for what they are. Don't think his cars need to be hand hammered and historically correct as he is selling a similar car and not a piece of history.

 

Not sarcastic.
Ironic perhaps.

 

Right. I hear ya.

 

Vizsla is correct about Piper never throwing anything away.There are pictures of Piper"s property which illustrate this.Maybe some day Piper will give us a list, as best he can remember,of what he got with the deal with E F. tongascrew

 

This makes me laugh. HAHAHAHAHA!

How about we build the real car out of the real parts and the fake one out of the spares????

Or just build the fake one from scratch and not waste X amount of millions and period Ferrari parts wanting a car to be what it never will.

 

While you're at it have a good laugh at 0900 003. HAHAHAHA!

 

Was a real car destroyed to make this? Or was it actually quite the opposite? A once discarded car was put back together.

My bigger laugh came from you thinking that the obviously fake Cal Spyder was real. But I'm learning you can't tell the obviously fake ones from the real ones as time goes on.

 

You obviously don't know what "tripping" means, i.e the guy was hallucinating that his replica was real.

 

Maybe. I could be wrong thinking that you meant road tripping in a 250 cal. I'll give you that.

But there still is the issue with 0846 and 0858 where you can't tell a real one from a fake one.

 

Don't wait, do it now and tell us exactly what in your years of experience qualifies you to insult and criticize Piper and Talacrest. Be specific so we can compare.The book is open on these two,so show us what you got other than just words and opinions. I have great respect for Jim's opinions. His open book is tome of knowledge and experience. Can you even come close? tongascrew

 

The Can Am parts are now redundant, discarded if you like. Let's take a rewind in time shall we? Think of the time when Jim was going about buying 0900 003 from DP, before him discovering details that have lead him to believe that 0900 003 is 0846. What's the difference between that time and the train of thought behind the original project of adding discarded P4 parts to a 0900 continuation chassis and adding the discarded Can Am parts to one of the other 0900 continuation chassis that DP had made? There is no difference.

It's ok for Jim to have done it but my suggestion is HAHAHAHA!

 

The difference is he wasn't destroying a car to get the discarded parts. He was putting spares together to make a car.

 

I've got news for you. My suggestion in the present time wasn't destroying a car either. Have a look at the pictures of 0858 taken a few days ago. The Can Am parts are already taken off the car, and effectively discarded. So there is no difference.

 

I only need 5 seconds of experience. To look at the picture of the incorrect methods used.

It is obvious that all those years of expierience didn't add up to much as the car is done incorrectly as you have admitted. Anyone with a lack of expierience can hire tradesmen to build an incorrect car.

And an opinion is all I need. Cause frankly that is all you have. And your opinion was that Napolis was better prepared to do a P Car correctly then Piper was. A car at this level should have not have blatant mistakes. And it does. Therefore Piper is not the right man for the job.

Whereas with Napolis it seems that he turned over every stone to avoid the pitfalls. A guy can do something for a thousand years. If he is still doing it wrong after a thousand years of experience I'd hardly call them an expert.

An ex- race car driver, yes. A guy who was good at slapping P4's together to keep them on the race track, somewhat. A guy that can build a P4 recreation that is worth of a million dollar price tag... Not so much.

 

That's nice to know. So they got rid of the engine then?

I said that they destroyed the Can Am to get those parts. Which is what you just said.

The problem and difference is that they destroyed the car to get the discarded parts. They were not discarded parts before they started the butchering but a complete original factory car.

It baffles me that you are not able to understand this???

Sure I can scrap all the GTO's and call them "currently" discarded parts, I guess??? But first you have to destroy the GTO's to get them???

Are you really having a problem understanding this?

 

I understand where you're coming from given your disapproval to the project and I accept that the Can Am has been sacrificed to recreate the P4. Life isn't easy I'm afraid. In my opinion those sacrifices have been justified to reconfigure 0858 as a P4, its original, greatest, most successful and beautiful form. What I do have a problem understanding is the hypocrisy of some of the contributors to this thread.

 

What's the hypocrisy?

And while you're at it could you entertain me and give me your thoughts on these questions...

I don't mean to come on too hard, I do respect your opinion, but I do believe what is being done here is wrong. Just because actual history left this car as a Can Am, not as a P4. I love P4's as much as the next Ferrari nut but what happened in period reality is what happened. That's life. Recreating this as a P4, that's fantasy, even if done right it does not recreate history or make the P4 of 1967. This car is nothing but a 350 Can Am with a halloween mask on.

Like, Tonga said, it takes two points of view to see your way through an argument... Thanks.

 

So where is the rest of your experience beyond 6 seconds.Tell us what you have, owned, worked on, raced.driven, collected,events been to,researched, read about etc. that can relate to the subject at hand.So far it's just posturing. Jim has the experience to get great respect and influence people. I have been collecting his efforts since 2007 and David Piper"s since the late 1950s. Show me something of substance. tongascrew