David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

by falsely stating in advertising copy that this car is 330 when it's 350.

 

But how in the world can looks of a car justify destroying a perfectly authentic car to make it into something with a replica body? Same goes for 0038M. I don't care whether or not the Touring body is visually more desirable than the later, in period, installed Vignale body. Removing the Vignale body in favor of a replica Touring body is clearly a mistake which, hopefully, will be corrected some day.

I find it really offensive what Talacrest and Piper are doing to this car and having followed and participated in this thread from the beginning hasn't changed my perception On the contrary. If one really finds the P4 so g*dd*mn beautiful, than buy the real deal of suffice with a picture. But leave any other genuine Ferrari alone.

 

and don't deceive people reading your advertisement of this car by stating in writing that it's something that it's not. "330" when it's "350".

 

It's being done to turn a profit.
Nothing wrong with that, it's just the misrepresentations being made.

Those defending it would serve their case best if they just stopped posting.

 

I think there is everything wrong with destroying a perfectly fine authentic car, 'just' to make a profit. Perhaps not legally, but definately morally.

 

Many, including myself, agree. It's his right though. All the rationalizing just makes their case look even more foolish.

 

Nobody wanted it. So they are making it into what people want. Wrong in some peoples eyes, but the car is obviously not really that important. If it truly was as important as this thread is making it out to be, then it would have been snapped up long ago.

I wonder why Mr Stroll didn't buy it. It would have been really cool to have the CanAm sitting beside his P4.

 

It's just as unsold now.
Or did I miss something?

 

Whether or not somebody actually wants a CanAm 350 Piper incorrect P4 for $25m very much remains to be determined.

 

Agree..but maybe this car just isn't that important in the grand sceam of things in the Ferrari world. I wonder why the factory didn't buy it either.

I'll bet it would have sold for 8-10m however. But 25m was and still is over priced

 

Not true. Jim offered a cool 5M. Quite a lot of money for a car 'nobody' wants. Don't let the level of GTO-prices fool you. In the world of classic cars, 5 million is still a enormous amount of money. GTO-prices aren't representative.

Whether the car was important or not doesn't have anything to do with the justification of destroying the authenticity of the car concerned.

I agree, but he was apparently saving up for a NART Spider.

 

5MM euro.

Misrepresenting the displacement (330 when it's 350) in an advertisement is false advertising.

Misrepresenting displacement on Custom Declarations, Motor Vehicle forms, to tax authorities where motor vehicle taxes are based on displacement (Italy) is something that can subject one to civil and criminal penalties.

Spin that Talacrest, Racecar Pr, and Toutes.

Why state that is car is 330 when it's 350 except to deceive?

 

Hi Marnix,
David Piper was HIRED to do the conversion project 0858.
If one wants to blame someone, then blame the owner but not the third party who was only commissioned for this job and make money (DP).
A new carrozzeria could have been made here in NL too or ofcourse in Italy.

Regards
Tom

 

I find it amazing on a Ferrari forum of all places that "profit" seems to be a dirty word.

 

What part didn't you understand?

 

3 posts on the last page alone all about the 330 advert. The record player is stuck. You insult the intelligence of the forum. We heard you the first time and the many times since you've kept banging on with this.

 

Oh, at least one person wanted it. They really really wanted it. This thread has at least demonstrated they still want it so very badly. It sounds like they'll never get over not buying it when they had the chance to buy it at a bargain price. Ever!

 

True, True.

 

I think when it comes to destroying history profit is a dirty word,

Afterall it is not the profits of Ferrari that we are enamored by but the history of the company that we search out and relish in. Let the profits take that away and the passion we so desire is taken away.

I am kind of tired of the whole it's his car, he can do whatever he wants with it.

I do not believe this is true.

These are pieces of art. Pieces of history. I think they should be preserved just as I think a flag should not be burned.

If profit is the reason that you are into these cars then you are not an enthusiast. You are a salesman.

Passion should be what defines a Ferrari enthusiast, not money. A guy like this to me is a real Ferrari enthusiast. Much bigger then a guy that can put ten cars in his collection and the only tool he touches is his checkbook. Spending an insane amount of hours to rebuild parts that are thrown away just cause he wants to use the originals and maintain some history versus something that will work. My guess is he spent more time pounding out and finishing the moldings on his car then Talacrest did building the tail.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-redline-restorations/387338-330gt-2-2-series-i-parts-wanted.html

There's nothing wrong with profit. There is alot wrong with profit when it is achieved by destroying history.

 

The 330 vs 350 as a "misrepresentation" doesn't really bother me. It's basically the same motor, with different internal dimensions, and some of the endurance-related stuff and induction setup on the outside changed. It could be made to look exactly like it did in 330 form, externally. One of the problems with this historical revision is that apparently they botched that part of it - the external appearance of the motor and its ancillaries.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few 250SWB's or even GTO's out there with 275 dimensioned engines. No one cares because they still look right. I haven't reviewed the histories in a while but I am also fairly certain that there are a few 250/275/330 P cars that had engines of various displacements throughout their careers (generally ending them with the larger engines) and now have been reverted to earlier configurations. If the engine in 0858 was put back into endurance trim properly, the new owner would just be getting some extra performance. It could be done so that no one could distinguish it from its original form. It just isn't being done that way, based on the photos....

Still agree it would have been better left alone. It was the last of the P-car based Can-Am's left.

 

Tom is right.
And AGAIN: the car is NOT owned by Talacrest and it also is NOT owned by Piper. It belongs to a private person.

Marcel Massini

 

??

People wanted it but clearly understood what it was, a 350 Can AM and what wasn't a P4, and what it was worth to them (11MMUSD all in to me). It was a cool car and worth that to me but it wasn't one I had to have and therefore I set a limit and stuck to it. If I "had" to have it I would of bought it. RM really tried to get me to buy it and gave me a price that I could buy it for but I told them I had no interest at that price. So far no one want's 0858 it at the price the new owners are willing to sell it for either which doesn't surprise me. I have no interest in owning this Piperised "abortion" at all. None.

 

Thank you.
Somewhere in the 2000 plus posts I missed that.

 

I personally know of two genuine 250 GT California Spiders which both have 3.8 (three point eight) liter engines, rather than 3.0 liter engines. I also know of a genuine 250 GTO which is fitted with a 4 liter engine (but was born with a regular 3 liter engine).

Marcel Massini

 

Then its up to the new owner to do as they please. One would hope they'd insist on the highest levels of accuracy in the reversion.

This thread sure does reveal a lot about the personalities and personal history involved in the rarified world of Ferrari P car collecting...