360 or 430?

I wanted to start a recent thread regarding the pluses and minuses of the 360 and 430 Challenge cars. I am in the market for one and have reasons to like both.

360= looks, price
430= speed, condition

I would appreciate any input. There is a 360 for sale at Universal and was wondering if any FChatters can chime in on condition either publicly or via PM.
Also there is a 430 for sale down in Ft Laud on Ebay that has been around awhile. Any news on this one?

 

I think Pete at Universal has a couple 360C's and 430C's available. In particular he has one 360C that is in phenomenal shape, unsure if it's for sale, and probably one of the nicest 430C's on the market now. Plus, Luigi and Joe know how to take care of these cars, which is probably more important.

I had a choice of a 360 and 430, I went with the 430 simply due to the power, the brakes and generally it was a later generation. Having said that, 430's are more expensive to run and for 95% of folks you will want/need a higher intensity level of support (maintenance and at the track). In my case I also went for the car that was net/net in better condition and a strong history.

360's drive wonderfully - beautifully balanced, sweet steering. 430's a bit heavier, in hindsight the 360 is probably a bit more "race car", but the 430 has a bit more speed just based on brute force (bigger engine, brakes, tires, etc).

360's at this point are "vintage", so I'd bet any good ones have been redone, which is a good thing if done by someone who is expert at doing it. Seem many that are still running are doing so because someone wanted it that way. Unfortunately there are a lot of "ridden hard and put away wet" 430's out there, so when you find a fresher/better maintained one, it's something to jump on. Nice thing about CCR is that people who are in it tend to keep the cars in great shape, though all of the cars tend to be modified a bit (for performance, cost or reliability, which is a good thing)

Good luck with your decision.

 

thanks for the input. much appreciated

 

I did indeed end up buying one from Peter at Universal Autosports. A great guy to deal with and I look forward to running in the CCR next year
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Jerome,

Nice car!! Congrats and good luck in the series.

 

Thanks Robert!

 

I like the color scheme. Best of luck at the series! Please share your race experience with this car.

 

Thank you Claudio. I will certainly report back

 

Good luck, Jerome! Glad to see you in an F-car!

 

Why thank you Peter! Maybe see you at the HSR Daytona race ?

 

Congratulations on your 360C, I have being enjoying tracking my 360C, the car is still faster than me, one day I would wish and hope my driving skill improve over the car and able to drive max out the 360C than upgrade to next step 430C and or 458C.

I have only two questions here:

1. Sometimes, my 360C would stuck in it's gear and refuse to shift up or down and not even to neutral, so I am forced to pit out, cool down and use a SD2 to reset it, than back on again. And seems to be working fine all again? Anyone knows why?

2. If I am upgraded to a f430C, will SD2 and or SD3 able to service diagnose the F430C race car? Or it requires and only would work with some kind of F430C special computer?

Thanks in advance if anyone got any answers!

Alex

 

Hi Alex,

The issue with your car getting stuck in gear is possibly an actuator alignment issue, or an issue with the f1 unit. Does the car how any errors on the transmission? Does it complete the "self learning" process with the SD2? Does it get stuck in only 1 gear in particular?

If you upgrade to a 430, the SD3 is the only factory computer that will work to service/diagnose...not the SD2. The SD3 will work on both 360 and 430 challenge cars.

 

Nice 430C, Jerome! Congratulations!

 

Very nice. Beauty!

 

Thanks everyone. Pete was great to deal with and he has another very nice yellow 360 Challenge car for sale if anyone is interested

 

Thanks for your reply

I am truly appreciated! My 360C will stuck in not just one particular gear, it happened once in 2nd gear and once in 3rd gear! When we connect to the SD2, it showed some kind of error like F1 ECU is not communicative, I can't remember exactly what is it, anyhow after cleared, it is back to normal working condition !

Alex

 

good new alex. Check all the plug connections on the the small valves on the f1 unit (inside passenger rear qtr panel...looks like an octopus). Then check the plugs on the 2 sensors that go from the actuator to the f1 unit as well. Remove as many plugs as possible and clean with circuit board cleaner if possible. Glad to help.

 

Wowowow... Thanks much, will definitely do so.

Really appreciated...

Alex

 

Why do challenge cars require more service than say a scud that is tracked? I thought idea of challenge racers was to show how ferrari could turn street car into viable racer with just safety equip

 

let Pete explain it, if he will

as a driver/owner/racer, here's my take

1) every mile on the track is equivalent to at least 10 street miles, if not 20 or 30....full throttle, full brakes, going over bumps and curbs at 100mph, putting massive stress on hubs and bearings, full throttle shifts, tires taking a beating....that's what a car on the track goes through.

2) race cars tend to be even higher stressed...for performance. If speed is the quest, then things are lightened and stressed even more. (eg. Porsche Cup Car engines and gearboxes have recommended rebuild intervals that are very, very frequent)

3) my 430C was very reliable and tough....when maintained. Maintenance means fluids, full end-to-end tightening and torquing, brake bleeds, brake pad replacements, wheel bearings, cleaning coil packs....458C very much the same, just more intensive. Many folks are not prepared for the consumption/maintenance. New tires? think heat cycles....and a set a day. DOT DE tires can last longer (see comment 2 about quest for speed)

realistically, the Challenge car and road car are VERY similar...to a point.

 

With all service up to date can you just put a 430c on trailer, take it to track, and drive it? Same as a track driven scud? Or do you need track support just to get it going?

 

It also depends on the driving style and experience of the driver. I have found with my 355 Ch the harder I drive the more expensive it becomes. As you gain more experience the harder you push the car at the track.

When I did DE's. I could get more time out of the car. Racing test every system on the car. The good news is race cars, if used are well maintained machines.

I think with the F430. You will need access to a SD3 machine.

 

what is sd3 machine used for? thanks

 

You can. However, you'll want/need some special tools (eg. air wand, high pressure wheel gun, big torque wrench) to change tires (and extra wheels, perhaps some select spare parts like O2 sensors). For a mechanically inclined DIY'er, definitely doable. A well prepped car that you know how to check over is within the realm of reason. If you have a shop support you, they may even be able to help "train" you a bit!

In my case, I was more comfortable (and still am) having someone smart on the car support me at the track...partially as I am mechanical but no expert, partially so I can mentally focus on driving, knowing the car is perfect, and partially in that I'd prefer to drive more and wrench less.

SD3 is the (proprietary) Ferrari Diagnostic Computer. It's required to diagnose and correct/clear problems (eg. ABS faults). Can also be used to set gearbox/clutch points, is needed to actuate ABS valves for a full brake bleed, et al. (also requires someone who knows how to use it properly). There are alternatives (Leonardo?) that I"ll defer to experts to compare. Another reason why I preferred support 1) I don't know how to do this and 2) nothing sucks worse than being at the track with a flashing blue alarm light on the dash and not knowing if you can ignore it, or your engine is about to detonate... (and the alerts are generic - "ABS Alarm" can mean brake system, wheel speed sensor, hub...or just a broken connector wire.

Just my $0.02. If you're based in NY and curious, call Pete at Universal, I bought and ran my 430C with his team, they know these cars and take great care of them.