Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

918 has brake KERS as well. Only P1 doesn't. So far that is working very well and with less overall total output and more weight is very fast and fastest confirmed lap so far.

 

Yet the 918 drunk all its electron's juice by mid lap with the smallest engine and one electric motor per axle.
The fact that the LaF doesn't have different modes for the speed the electric motor is supposed to drain the batteries like the other two is encouraging. They have or are likely implementing it properly

 

We shall see...

 

On the flip side they are having problems with battery cooling if TOOLFAN is to be believed.

 

i agree that it is a different track, for sure, although i've never been there. i used to race. i got very bored of it after about 5-6 years or so, but the fire burned brightly for a while. i enjoy the open road now and occasionally the track. i mean who wants to wear a helmet all the time? and good lap times are all about braking anyway which is very tedious.

as to why the companies use it for marketing, i am not sure. i think its silly but i guess it comes down to needing SOMETHING to provoke buyers....did they do the same when Mclaren rolled out the F1, or Ferrari the Enzo, or Porsche the CGT? The 'ring obssession seems to have reached fever pitch nowadays.

 

I agree it wasn't always but is "fever pitch nowadays".

 

I think it means the P1 and the 918 petrol engine are used to charge the batteries. That doesn't happen anytime your petrol engine is already maxed out trying to accelerate. The 918 should generate more charge than the P1 since KERS kicks in when there's a lot of cornering and braking. But then it's used up when the car accelerates from the corners so long straightways nullify it.

F1 circuits have shorter straights. The cars are much lighter, approx 650 kg so use up much less power during acceleration. The LaF is expected to be much lighter than the 918 and P1 so it should use up less battery power.

 

Exactly. So far none can run at maxium full output for a whole Ring lap.

Remember that we could "only" recapture 50 HP for 50 seconds of boost from braking KERS per lap.

These cars are starting fully juiced up and losing maximum available power as the lap goes on.

The full charge done before the Hot Lap isn't something any can recover during the lap so they are all one lap wonders as designed and slower from there.

If they were KERS only on the track they would reach homeostasis at about 50HP for 50s on The Ring as we did. I'm still not a believer of "unneeded torque" on a Hot Lap of The Ring existing long enough to matter.

 

Yes, performance should drop after the first lap and then stabilize (homeostasis) because of the limitations of KERS power recapture as you have demonstrated (assuming batteries of all 3 cars are fully charged using their charging circuitry before starting lap 1). Still, given the petrol engine power and weight advantages of the LaF it is theoretically the best suited of the 3 for the Ring.

 

I agree but am still very impressed by 918's time. Theory is one thing. Lap Times another...

Suspension and shocks are very important at the Ring. Redesigning ours and using Ring Shocks we dropped 15 seconds per lap. Personally I think Ferrari needs to optimize La Ferrari's suspension and shocks for the Ring if they want a record time.

All of this is part of the reason that I now think less is more and am heading in that direction with our next race and road car.

 

Very interesting Jimmy, do you not think like this before?

 

I think you're right about the Ring showing the "weakness" of the current supercar hybrid paradigm. On a track that flows like that and has several long virtually flat out sections, there is never enough braking or enough tight corners where "excess torque" is available to fully recharge the batteries, so these cars will all be one-lap wonders there. Or in the case of the McLaren a 3/4 lap wonder. On a more ordinary circuit with tighter corners and a shorter overall lap, the systems probably have a better chance to recharge. Probably enough that the tires become the weak link after several hard laps. They'll probably provide enough juice to last the length of a typical lapping session.

On the road I'm sure they'll work fine. No one in their right mind is going to drive any of these cars flat-out on public roads for more than a 30-60 seconds at a time, I'll bet. Certainly not for 6+ minutes at a time - unless they want to end up in prison or up the backside of some soccer mom's mini-van.

In your program was any thought ever given to aero-recharging? Can a small ducted turbine(s) provide significant charge, or would it be totally offset by the drag penalty? And do the rules even allow it?

 

Drag would offset gain. You'd need petrol to offset drag. KERS via brake recovery works well and at night looks cool as the fronts glow as the backs recapture. TERS which is "aero" recovery of exhaust gas energy that would normally go out the pop off valve also works and a form of it will be used in V6 Turbo F1 cars.

I agree with your post and think you've summed it up well.

We're software re-engineering our system for the road so that it will recharge by petrol at stop lights and at highway cruise when 100% throttle or 100% braking isn't being called for.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

It might not have been at quite the same level as now, but I remember Walter Rohrl talking about both the Enzo and Carrera GT being tested by Porsche there and commenting on their ring times. It makes a little more sense for them, but Porsche and Rohrl seemed very pleased with the Carrera GT.That was just before or right around the time the cars were released into the real world. There's also always been the rumours and unofficial time of the Mclaren F1 during it's testing at the ring. Accurate or not it would indicate some real testing done there.

It wasn't until years later someone got the Enzo, Carrera GT and a few other cars to the Ring for a test, but I can remember anticipation and demand from the internet public(internet communities are not necessarily the same as the rest of the world) being very high.

Silly metrics for measuring ultimate car performance have been around for well over 20 years now. Top speed is perhaps the greatest offender. Since the 80s this metric was used until the Mclaren F1 basically ended that. It returned in the early 2000s with Koenigsegg, Bugatti and a few more focused efforts taking runs at the record, but it has never really regained it's lustre, and for good reason, it means little for even the most avid track racer or back road warrior.

In those 20+ years other metrics came to the forefront, acceleration being perhaps the most prolific. It was a big deal for the Mclaren F1 and it still was when the Enzo and it's peers arrived. Track times became a bigger deal right around the early 2000s too and while it's still not the end all and be all it certainly gives you a little more information than simple performance figures. The ring takes the focus partially because of its reputation, but also because it's so varied and very much is a real road. While it's still a bit misleading the idea is that the Ring represents the track and the winding road. Being fast there means your car is fast anywhere. And while it certainly can be misleading, especially with these hybrid cars going for one fast lap, the fact is that the Ring has always been long and punishing enough to reduce the performance of a car after or even before one lap was completed whether it be due to suspension issues or tire wear, or it simply revealing a weakness in a car's design.

I just don't believe this fever pitch is actually all that new, it's only slightly heightened and become more public in the last couple years. When it comes down to it companies have been testing their cars there for decades for a reason, even it wasn't always the ultimate lap time.

 

Meanwhile, I can't help but wonder what Maserati are up to and that they might just blow everyone away with some naturally aspirated lightweight monster hypercar. One can dream.

 

One can but that's not happening.

 

If only you know the real story... ; )

 

I do, from Real People, and it's not happening.

 

Met Fisichella at the 458speciale launch and he tells me the LF is simply extraordinary and that apparently the battery issues have been solved. I can believe the former, not necessarily the latter.

He also suggested it was quicker than the current officially posted Fiorano time.

 

All these sound plausible.

 

That would make more sense.

 

He also said they have done over 100,000 km's of testing on one car validating the batteries.

 

Wow that koninsig is very impressive... I hate the Bugatti !!! V16 and 4 turbos and 2 million dollars it should be te fastest thing on earth and beyond !!!