"go fast" chassis setup for your 308

Thanks Lucky,my mechanic and good buddy has transformed my euro QV for $800 with your suggested modifications.The turn in is awesome and the road holding on undulating pavement out here on Texas 2 lane black top is very reassuring. My barbells are gone and I ask you if I should add a 1/4 inch of shims on the front lower forks for just a tad of adjustment? Cheers,Pat
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+1 ... if you spend just a little time behind the wheel at the track (obviously you do) you will come to understand this.

but you will never convinced these guys here on the chat. ive been asking for a 308 laptime at a north american road circuit to compare with for 6 or 7 years now on the forum. with all this racecar type jargon talk no one has came forward with a casual lap time and i know they do exist! i will say this again a spec miata will slay a stockish 308 on a road circuit. embarrassingly it wouldnt even be close despite the horsepower deficiency.

believe me, i have no beef with the guys that want to track prep or ring more performance out of a 308. i would like to do one for myself one day.

cheers

 

This is like asking for old 911SC lap times, what's the point. A spec Miata would be quicker than that too. A properly setup 308 as many European preparing companies have proven is a very capable car, same as an old 911. There's no point in checking lap times for old stock 911s, there's simply none out there running like that because they're all modified somewhat for track use and no one until recently is really getting into doing this with 308s.

I will be at Road Atlanta later next month, which I live about 10 minutes from. Estimates from those 'in the know' say a good driver could get a low 1:40s or upper 1:30s out of my car because it's as quick as a Cayman S in a straight line and although the suspension isn't quite what a Cayman's is, it's certainly a huge improvement over stock. A 08 Cayman S will do a mid 1:30 there in the hands of a good driver, there are vids out there supporting this. I'm personally shooting to break 1:50.

 

a spec miata is just that... a stock drivetrain car with 130-140 hp. nothing more than safety equipment and limited suspension modifications. not a true race car by any stretch.

old 911SC or 3.2 are quick with similar suspension mods when they take remove weight sparingly while still being a true road car. Run your car there and compare it to masses of lap times taken with stockish 3.2 or SC’s without there motors ever opened up.

i have no doubt your car is a huge improvement over the stock car. and of course its miles ahead of a spec miata in terms of acceleration. Im a big fan of the car you built btw but circuit cars is quite another deal all together.

outside of power to weight, heres a few factors why: modern brakes to help with fade and modulation, abs which helps you trail brake deeper into the corners, or ease and speed of shifting not only save time between on acceleration and downshifting but helps stabilize the car in transition quicker. With that alone you can jump on and off the throttle quicker matching revs with more precise throttle modulation. hell you can even shift in mid corners these days with the modern gearboxes. you shave fractions of seconds on every corner which adds up to seconds per lap.

though ive never ran at road alanta (would love to one day) all due respect 1:50 and 1:30 is a huge gap. cars shouldn’t even run together with lap times so far apart unless you are in the advance group were u are allowed to pass on the corners. Even 10 secs is a lot. this has nothing to do with your personal ability to ring out the car. Its just that a stock cayman S is a pretty competent car out of the box that is track worthy.

looking forward to here from your experience in a couple of weeks. be safe, have a blast and please dont wad up that pretty car of yours!

My 2 cents

PS wasnt roscoe they guy that once said a pantera was hopeless compared to a 308?

 

A suspension-only modified Porsche 911SC is no quicker around Road Atlanta than a 308 with similar light suspension mods. These old cars just have to be modified or at least lightened a ton to go well. 1:50 is best for basically stock cars like this.

A spec miata, lightened, proper suspension setup that is largely stock, cheater motor (they're all running them!), will run mid 1:40s at Road Atlanta. The NASA spec Miatas weigh something like 2300-2400lb with driver, and with 160 or so bhp, they run pretty well!

Strangely, I have dialed out most of the brake fade by simply using Porterfield pads! (Crazy right). These stock brakes aren't incredibly powerful by any stretch, but for the power this car has, and weight of 2800lbs, I think they are ok. I can stomp on the brakes at 100mph, heel and toe to 2nd, maintain a nice neutral turn in with maybe a touch of understeer, and do it again and not have any noticeable fade. The old pads sucked, bad, really bad LOL. I'm not going to go crazy with this car, it's as you know not a serious track machine, but something that I hope works well all over.


If a Cayman S can crack a 1:35, I think I can get at least within 10 seconds of that personally. A great driver could probably get close! I have seen guys tooling around in 430s with instructors on board doing low 1:40s, fast car those things.

 

ive driven a caymanS and a F360. I just an amateur weekender, without timing them and just by the seat of the pants i'd say they be pretty close to each other on the track.

i reckon the F430 (never driven a 430 only 308s 48s, 55s, the 458s) would be much quicker than a cayman S. 360 and 430 are similar cars but there a ton more power and torque in the F430.

whatever the case say if you can match the times of a dialed 3.2 track car with stock internals you should be plenty pleased. a NASA spec Cayman S demolished my buddies gutted 930 with steamrollers..any he is a local PCA instructor.

if im not mistaken, arent the 911sc-3.2 calipers the same as the 308's?

 

Hey Lucky,I just laid out $4000 for oem mags which are much more true in run out,the repro's were intolerable to me..Weve been running 375F300R springs on stock koni and it turns in very well.Im now going QA1 and my mechanic wants me to go to Colvins or Moorespeed and get her corner weighted and aligned,,he wants to shim the front lower arms a 1/4in for a little flavor.Street car only but I like to fiddle,cheers,Pat

 

ive ran at qualcom a few years ago with the pca or scca... nothing remotely fast there. i couldnt get into a handful of laps on a bumpy parking lot on cold tires then work the course for most of the day and wait around for a few bonus laps in the end.

well if you are in socal i wouldnt recommend willow springs to go bonsai the first time out. turn 9 can be a widow maker. yes peeps have died there. its 110+ through there. corners are extremely long with high sustain G loading. areo can play a huge factor on how the car handles. a friend monkey up a ricer wing for curiosity sake and knocked off 4 whole seconds there! he never runs without one out there now.

buttonwillow would be better but talledaga corner is also 100mph depending on the configuration you are running. nice thing is its wide and a little banked so u can drift it a little and play with the little slip angle coming out of it for the back straight.

fontana is a bore but pretty darn safe with high speed corners. i was a volunteer instructor there. if you havent been on a track before try fontucky just to sort your car out? the infield is an uninspiring go-kart track and use half the banking. being close by is a bonus. had to tow a F360 home with a broke wheel caused by a pot hole on the track!

if you get a chance go run seca... has a little of everything! Love that place.

never got a chance to run sears point or parumph in NV. i heard good things about them the later has a section copied from Mosport im told from a friend that ran there.

 

Has anyone had a problem with permanent chassis deflection (bending) of the upper rear shock mounting points?
The flatter section of the chassis where the top of the rear shock mounts attach seems to have moved upwards like 1/4 in on my car...no longer flat.

Im running Eibach 350/300 ft/rr springs, QA1 shocks set at 6/8, complete rebuild of suspension system, lowered about 1" all around and corner balanced, pretty stock alignment specs.

Im not sure when this deflection happened...perhaps its always been there....only noticed it after new suspension had been in place for a few months. My mechanic says its not common.

Just wondering if the chassis does not like the extra stiffness?

 

please post a picture of rear left and right upper shock mountings for comparison