McLaren Depreciation 12-C: a nightmare- werewolf?

Mclaren is a long time bitter enemy of SF in F1. Hard for some Tifosi to have a McL in their garage.

May not be right or logical but that's just how some people are.

On Fifth Gear they admitted they were biased bcus the 12C was a British car and still gave the edge to the 458 for reasons discussed above.

Some of the benefits of owning a Ferrari are:
racing history and current F1 participation. best record in F1
the history of the marque goes back to 1948-9
Pininfarina design
dealer network. McL only has 9 dealers in the US
well known. the average Joe does not know what a McLaren is = limited cache
no love em or hate em scissor doors
no problematic wide door sills
LED steering wheel
flat crank wonderful non-turbo v8 sound
luxurious interior
7 yr free maintenance
Ferrari Club of America meets and activities. McLaren club???

It's not just the car. other factors are important

need I go on?

 

Before I bought my 12C I had never heard of a street car called Mclaren. My Freind Jay who is 29 or so years old turned me to the Mclaren. It is alimited cache

Did not know their was not a Mclaren club, do not really care. Funny since I was on the board for the Ferrari owners club.

I was not aware their wre so few dealers but the dealer in Tampa where I bought my 12C has been wonderful. I buy a fair amount of cars and I was impressed.

Best

Lee

 

In Dallas it is impossible as far as I know to go buy a new 458 at sticker. Maybe now as we approach the 5th model year with the replacement on the horizon I could, but in 2010-11 no way. I asked. The hidden cost is buying used cars or FFs or other vehicles (e.g Masers) that will depreciate. The actual, out of pocket cost to own a 458 at least in my locale is not sticker price of the 458. No one seems to admit that who owns 458s. And if I am wrong, someone set me up for the 458 replacement. I'll take a first model year car, delivered that year, at sticker and put down any reasonable deposit right now. But you have to agree to pay me 2x my deposit if I don't get my car during the first year of production.

I do agree that McLaren was foolish to try to jump in and sell straight up against Ferrari at the same price and at a pretty high volume. That and the car was not ready for prime time with an abysmal infotainment system and not enough power to dominate the 458.

The Ferrari is more a lifestyle accessory than performance vehicle. I see more 12Cs at my home track than 458s and the 458 has been in production since 2010. The 458 sounds fantastic and appears to "handle" better primarily due to a much higher steering ratio. It is prettier to most and is a FERRARI. Most buyers of these cars get upset when people don't recognize what they are. I think everyone can agree that the status symbol factor is why and the Ferrari is a better status symbol.

Anecdotally, I was astonished when a good friend and aerospace engineer by trade had no idea the 12C was a twin turbo, carbon fiber tub car with a 200+ lb weight advantage over a 458. He bought the 458 because it's a FERRARI. We swapped cars and while I agree the 458 transmission algorithms are better and it sounds better and is easier to get in and out of, the 12C is in another league in terms of power and ride comfort (with a larger range for comfort to stiffness). And his 458 blew its transmission on the first session on track. While any car can have issues, I point this out as an example of the real world range of 458 ownership experience.

Both cars are simply magnificent. What amazes me is people denigrating one vs the other, when it is really a matter of personal preference, like chocolate vs vanilla ice cream.

I can honestly say that I think the 12c is better in any objectively measurable category, like lap times, acceleration, and even mileage. As the new kid delivered in fairly high volume the resale price is about $100K less than sticker. The good news is that a whole generation of buyers will become McLaren fans. After all, if the money matters to buyers, then think how many will shy away from the impending depreciation on that used $250k 458 in favor of a $180k 12C. And if money doesn't matter, then depreciation debate is akin to discussing how many angels fit on the head of a pin.

 

Link to what? Gordon Murray's biography? He has a strong history with McLaren including the greatest street car of the last 50 years, the F1. And look up Bruce McLaren while you are at it. IMO a far more accomplished racer and engineer than Enzo Ferrari. But Enzo was the master at marketing and leadership. I personally love the McLaren and Ferrari rivalry. It makes both stronger than either would be alone. It certainly doesn't make either crappy or inferior in any way.

 

Keith a great post

Best

Lee

 

You are not comparing apples to apples. I can go and buy a Mac today and will suffer x depreciation. If I need to buy a 458 I will have to pay over sticker and get options I don't want if I want it today.

I bet if you truly compare the depreciation of both the cars they are very similar. For the folks who are in with their dealers how about taking into account all the overpriced used Ferraris that had to buy first and all the money they lost on them.

Likewise when looking at resale of 458's are you looking at the 30k-50k in options aswell as the cost basis? Because if you look at the true cost of a 458 they are not holding up as well as you think.

 

Naturally , MaClaren depreciates in terms of resale price much faster than Ferrari 458 as the latter is the best seller in Ferrari ! I had waited years for the delivery of my 458 Spider !

 

Getting in very late on this one, but just want to share an interesting view......

When I was a kid, I was hooked on Ferraris. It was the image, the sound, and the racing history that I read about in all the magazines. But I will never forget when I visited Shelton Ferrari back in 1988. The dealership was amazing....I still remember Stephen Eckhoff taking the time to walk me around the dealership and show me some amazing cars (like a 250 GTO in the back shop) It was then that I was sold on Ferrari.

Fast forward to last weekend. My son and I visited the Maclaren dealer in PA. The dealership had a rolling chassis showing the design and engineering of the car. They had a James Hunt F1 right there. The salesman spent time talking about the technology and racing history of the marque. My son has been to multiple Ferrari dealers which really did not impress him.....but he loved the Maclaren dealer! They actually are try to sell their car and build their brand with there racing history. And, he loved the doors! Lets face it, they are really cool!

Sadly, I feel that Ferrari has kind of lost sight of this. There is an arrogance and "for profit" motive that has taken over. Not one Ferrari dealership (and we have visited several over the years) has taken a moment to sell the brand to him. If I were 15 again, Maclaren wins......or at least it did this weekend. The new flying poster on his wall is the 12c.

And at 15, did any of us discuss depreciation as to why we wanted a Ferrari? Nope.

In fact, the poster child was the Countach.....with the really amazing doors! And if I look at the market now, the car with the cool doors wins the depreciation contest. The Countach is clearly not a better machine, but it has a lasting image in the hearts of the 15 year old inside us. At the end of the day the coolest car wins, not the depreciation. If this is all that matters, then you need to ask yourself if you are a car guy.

Discussion about depreciation just shows that you are an old man focused on money and not the car.

I'm very impressed with Maclaren and hope they can stay in this market.

 

3 thumbs up. Car debates are fun.

 

Most of the people who have the money to buy a Ferrari earned it in some way. They consider the total expense, realize from and investment standpoint it is dumb, and do it anyway.

I own several cars and all of them depreciate. I accept that as the cost of my enjoyment.

 

seems like nothing gets the blood going like 12c v. 458 currently

 

All I can say is I was told I'd pay over sticker and wait an indefinite period of time for a 458. As for orders, I have more than one friend who placed deposits for prior generations like 430 and 360 and the cars mysteriously did not arrive until the very tail end of production when the next model was about to arrive. I expect the same treatment and also expect the 458 will depreciate substantially when the new model comes out

If I place a deposit for a car I expect a place certain in line and since I don't think I get it with Ferrari, then no deposit from me. Same reason I don't wait in line at restaurants that do not take or honor reservations. When I enter into a contract and part with money, I want the other person to perform. If a "good" customer can leapfrog me then my contract is illusory.

So I guess I'll take some depreciation, as I get a car now in exchange and what I feel is a more respectful and honest treatment by my local dealer.

 

Same thing happened with me as a kid in the late 70's and early 80's with Ferrari, great experience, terrific dealers, and Gilles Villeneuve. Fast forward to now, I took my daughter (11) to the same Ferrari Dealer I bought cars from and the same exact thing happened as to you and your son. As a result, I am a very happy owner of a 12C and still think extremely highly of the 458, just not the Ferrari Dealers locally in Southern Cal, with the exception of James Del Pozzo in BH. Arrogance is incredible on the part of some these Salesman.

 

i share all these thoughts/experiences. all unfortunately true.

 

You also had to wait years before you could even order your car. 12C prices would probably hold up better if you couldn't just walk into the dealer and get your car ASAP with no hassles whatsoever.

 

I think part of the problem with these 12C's and 458's is that the prices now are just to damn high. When approaching over 300k for a spyder version it sure starts to make a Porsche Carrera GT or a McLaren SLR Roadster an interesting option. Especially when considering future residual values and collectability

 

Over 300k for a spider, try over 300k for a brand new couple spec'd well and id say well over 300k for the spider.

 

It sounds like there is a very different approach between dealers of both manufacturers between Europe and the US.
I have been treated extremely well in any Ferrari dealer I have been to in the UK, Italy and France even when it was pretty clear to them that I was most probably only browsing.
After contacting McLaren when the MP4-12 was introduced I was put on a short list to go see it. Long story short....I showed up one day at the McLaren dealer in London (which had NO customers in but 3 dealers) and I was not allowed to enter without a prior appointment. After complaining that Ferrari doesn't behave like that I was told to go buy a Ferrari then....

 

Interesting about that. I had an order for a 458 with a Dealer whose Manager I have dealt with and is a real gentleman, but I was about six months out on the car, I went to my local dealer in my 430 on a Sunday, I saw a used Black 458 with Racing Seats, I thought what the hell, this might be perfect until the other new car gets in. The Dealer was too busy to unlock the 458 for me to see how the Racing Seats felt regarding a comfort level, I was certain that these guys were order takers and not Sales People. I went to McLaren afterwards that day with no intention whatsoever of buying a 12C. Since the interaction was night and day and they actually gave me the car overnight. I was sold. I loved the acceleration, the carbon tub, the seating position, and the fact that they treated me like a Customer.

A few weeks I was with my family in Beverly Hills for the weekend and walked down from the Hotel a couple of blocks with my Daughter to the Ferrari Dealer, unfortunately the Manager who I consider a friend was busy, but some New ***** Salesman was extremely arrogant and rude while we were there. Now just to clarify, my daughter is one of the quietest and most polite kids, who would never open the door on a car, make noise, or be out of control, said "Daddy why is that Man so Mean." I actually went to look a Red 458 Coupe they had for sale.

Just for the sake of it, we walked down to McLaren Beverly Hills and once again, just as Newport McLaren, the Manager treated us warmly, no sales pressure, even offered us a beverage.

Sorry to get this off track regarding the 12C vs. 458. As I have said many times, I consider both cars extremely capable and wonderful in their own ways.