I think I'm done with Ferrari

Lol...I'm basing it on quantity...

 

We all must also remember, dealers ARE NOT the same as Ferrari and should not be viewed as one in the same. There is a big difference between where the transaction takes place and where they are created. Besides some supercar release criteria, Ferrari SpA doesn't say who gets a 458 Spider before anyone else, etc...

 

I love my R500 Superlight. Pure track machine.

 

I think this thread highlights the reasons many stopped drinking the Ferrari Kool Aid. I especially liked the post where someone stated he was relatively comfortable his $400,000 two year old car would actually start.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ff-f12/419463-neiman-marcus-ff-problem-helpp.html

 

"The Technology of Good Enough" is finally catching up to Ferrari. Differentiation between cars has never been as close as today, and it's gonna get even closer in the future, cuz auto tech has not only caught up to human capabilities, it's surpassed it. News lately about cars that drive themselves, etc., blah, blah, blah.

I'm likely to get a BMW 4-series sometime after the first of the year(I really like the styling, performance and value), and in researching it all, I've become aware of how far behind on auto tech I've become. The last 'new' car I bought was a 328GTB in 1989(!) and the latest made car I own is a 1992 grocery getter Camry. I don't drive much and have zero need to drive, so can get by with not much.

Cars these days have so much crap on 'em, it's a losing battle for the makers to provide eye candy to get us to buy 'em.

Not surprising Ferrari has painted themselves into a corner, and with the questionable styling combined with the 'Ferrari Attitude', they -could- have some issues in the future.

That said, if they stick to making <10,000 cars/year, there'll be enough rich wanna-be, gold-chain types out there to suck up demand.

So, a thread like this, which sounds good for venting, will probably have ZERO impact on future Ferrari sales or attitudes.

There's always someone willing to buy the latest 'In' thing...

 

Please tell me what Lamborghini had the visual impact of an Enzo. Much as I've always admired the Countach (the ones without that stupid wing), nothing beat the sheer in-your- face design of the Enzo, not to mention its amazing performance. Lambourghini has yet to produce anything lately that compares.

 

This is a joke right? The Countach made it's debut in 1974. The fact your comparing a car almost 40 yeas old to a 2002 Enzo tells the tale of which car has had the greater impact. The Enzo is very striking indeed (read awkward) whereas the Countach is a timeless automotive milestone. I've said it before, no car before or since has or will ever have the same impact of a Countach. Period.

 

To me the Miura is far more beautiful. And for a modern car, I think the Aventador brings forward the Countach into a modern carbon fiber masterpiece. None of these cars drive all that great, but Lambo is to me a more striking fashion statement in an outrageous sort of way. Ferrari styling is more elegant and still striking, but again more of a fashion statement than performance machine, if you start measuring things like acceleration and lap times. For example I'll bet the C7 performance versions will eclipse the 458 when they come out or at least be so close that it's not worth the price multiple if what matters to you is what they will do on track. Tracking a car is also very hard on it and consumes things like brakes, wheel bearings, and other stressed components, so again, why pay so much extra to go the same pace and put road rash on the car?

That said, I think Ferrari sagely emphasizes intangibles that drive the emotional purchase by people who don't really care about objective performance numbers. For every person who leaves the Ferrari fold I bet there are many more who aspire to own one and buy when their means permit.

 

For every guy like me who refuses to play the "dealership game" there's 2 guys begging to get in. I get this sense that you have to pay homage and earn the right to become a client of the dealer. Similar to the Seinfeld "Soup Nazi" episode.

Want to buy a new car from them...first you have to buy a couple of heavily marked up used ones, plus give up a kidney or first born. Trade in values are abysmal. I tried to trade a CS to the dealer for a used 599. Their trade in offer was 30k less than what I sold it for with minimal effort. No negotiation allowed, that would have been insulting to them.

I'm fairly tech savvy work wise, but fortunately when it comes to cars I'm Mr. Analog. Everything new is electronic and blindingly fast. Takes driver skill and feedback out of the equation. So I pull up to the dealership in my old V-12 to kick tires and look around (the new cars are visually appealing) and I'm sure they view me as a pariah.

 

That little horse does bring with it a lot of intangibles as you say. It is the beautiful elegant styling of models built long ago, the incredible racing heritage coupled with the perceived rarity and prestige that I believe creates a lot of the desire people have with the brand. Lamborghini has IMO built their brand on outrageous and almost impractical designs somehow tapping into our desires and giving us what we dream of. Ferrari to me is a very fashionable brand where what is in style today may be out tomorrow and with every new design essentially Ferrari is telling us what is now to be considered beautiful.

 

Well stated.

 

Totally agree ...

 

+1

 

Great post Bob. Totally agree with everything you wrote. I am going old school and am done with modern sports cars. Now on to the thrill of the chase.....

 

The problem is the di montezemolo cars are not as beautiful or as rare as the Enzo era cars.

Luca did a great job in keeping the mystic up and running well beyond expectations.

As others have said, for every one that drops the brand, two others are quick to take the spot, as the world population grows, along with wealth the Ferrari brand will continue to prosper.

Lets see what the next generation has to say about the resale of the 25 yr old 458/f12/California.

 

Sorry but I think you're being very selective here. Which is better looking? The 355 or the Testarossa? One is "Enzo era", the other LDM. It's not the only case I could bring up. Not every Enzo era car is a winner in the looks department.

I think styling isn't the reason I've turned. I think it goes back to the radical increases in prices that have made them overly complicated and possessions for only the very rich (unlike a Dino or a 308 was IMO in the 70's and 80's).

In turn, you get some of the nasty side effects of how everyday people (and police) look at the cars. And, you get the nasty side effects of exotic repairs, maintenance, and insurance.

When you raise the bar, you have to raise it on every level. I think they've forgotten that point. Not many complained of orange peel on a new 308. The number one gripe of 458 owners: paint. And, the paint is 1000 times better than a 308 was on a good day.

As for rarity, they still do make limited production cars. The 16M has turned out to be a real winner. It's loved by it's owners and it's resale has help up well. And, you don't see one at every stop light in LA or Miami.

On this level, I think they have done well. I think the Barchetta is a classic example. It's beautiful, a limited production, and just plain quirky --which is what we expect of Italian machinery. And... done under LDM.

 

I find this to be actually quite entertaining, I wish I had such problems. Most people dream of just being able to own one Ferrari in their lifetime, and you've managed to find a way turn what most people dream about into a personal sob story about how you've been let down.

Sorry, no sympathy from me. Just thank your lucky stars you don't have to deal with the dealerships like Chevy or Ford (or heaven forbid, drive) you'd probably want to commit suicide if you did. Oh, the humanity!

 

Seriously. If you are done with Ferrari then move on and don't let the door hit you in the arse!

It's like enough already.

This board is called Ferrari Chat and not "ListenToMyInsecurities.com"!

Got to the corvette board or the fiat board or the I want to spend my whole day posting and complaining on the F-Chat Board.....but for the love of God stop complaining. Be a man for God sake.

 

Read post 367 and then tell me I'm wrong.

Go ahead. Pick that post apart and tell me they are on the right track. Tell me things can't be improved. Really, there's no room on mighty F chat for a counter point?

I would also like to point out that about 95% of the posts here agree with me.

The ostrich needs to get it's head out of the sand.

 

No one is asking for your sympathy.

My point: everything can be improved. If you don't talk about it, it never will.

 

Be a man and not a little cry baby....

Oh the cup holder is too expensive, Ferrari doesn't like me, the car is too expensive, I want a stick shift, no one is nice to me at Ferrari, I don't have a F12, I only "broker even" on my spider, mommy where is my bottle?

 

LOL! Well, you're on the losing end of this argument.

I think the baby here is named SLd -- and this post says it all.

But to set the record straight...

Actually, Ferrari likes me a lot. I've already gotten some interesting emails that I won't publish. I turned down buying an F12. I was offered one months ago after getting a test drive. I like the F12 a lot-- awesome power, looks, and the sound is to die for. But I don't want another GT. I happily gave back my spider. In return of that money I'm trying to buy

1) A new Corvette C7 convertible (replaces my 12 year old Maserati spider)
2) An Afla 4c (if they ever sell them in the US)
3) A 512 BB or a classic Maserati (not sure which yet).

Am I crazy? I don't think so. Sounds like a pretty good trade UP to me.

Look, I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me. But my point here is that I'm not alone in many of these issues.

And I think there's no harm in discussing them in an open forum of Ferrari enthusiasts. In a certain "Mac" lovers site, this thread would have been booted a long time ago.

Luckily F car owners have a thicker skin.

 

This...A Ghibli will be my next car project, although I really do like the 512BB

 

Shhh....quiet !

 

Great to see that you haven't moved away from sportscars/interesting cars