Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Ditto.

 

Hehe, funny!

 

Funny that P1 is at 7:04 so far?

Lets cut to the chase.

How fast do you think P1 will be at The Ring?

Faster than 918?

Faster than La Ferrari?

 

Yes, P1 will be faster.

 

You know this how?

So far P1 charged/ discharged twice on Ring lap (Wtdoom). Recharging takes away from total available HP No?

You can't run at 2.7 inches of ground clearance at The Ring. Porsche understand this. Does McLaren? Why did they tell me and German customer they have already beat 918's time when Wtdoom who canceled his P1 order says they told him they haven't yet? How about La Ferrari. How do you know P1 will be faster around The Ring than La Ferrari?

So far I remain very impressed with 918's time not impressed with P1's 7:04 and await La Ferrari's assuming there ever is one.

 

Here's a thought. The performance of these cars will undoubtedly improve with new and more advanced batteries. Who will be able to support better these advancements? Will volumes speak for themselves?

 

I guess Ferrari uses FAAM

Magneti Marelli and FAAM: agreement for the development of batteries aimed at electric drive for sustainable mobility | Magneti Marelli

 

If McLaren had "already" beaten the 918 time they wouldn't be keeping it to themselves. They'd be shouting it from the hilltops. The McLaren was clearly designed to be the "ultimate" track day car out of the current crop of hypercars, but it was designed with more contemporary purpose-built tracks (i.e., billiard table smooth, and shorter) in mind. Which makes sense, because to the extent any of these cars actually find their way to a track in the hands of a customer, that is probably the type of track most of them will be used on.

The NS is not really a "track" in the contemporary sense. It's more like a regular road that happens to be closed circuit. So the McLaren's biggest "on paper" advantage, which is downforce when it is cranked down close to the road in its "track" configuration, has to be highly compromised for it to run there. Without that downforce, and without AWD like the 918, it has to have trouble putting 900HP to the road. Add in the battery issues over such a long lap, and it starts to make sense that it isn't as fast as advertised.

It will be a markedly different story on a more ordinary, contemporary style track, where I expect it will show its heals to the 918 with ease. I expect the Ferrari to fare similarly, although its bigger, more powerful engine will probably give it some advantage relative to the Mclaren at the Ring. Whether that power advantage offsets traction issues over a whole lap is among the big unknowns.

Napolis, any idea how much HP it costs to charge a battery the size of the McLaren's using just engine power? I'm sure it's dependent on how quickly it recharges, but I expect there is some upper limit for that based on heat and battery longevity?

 

Chevrolet's new Z28 Camaro just laid down a 7:37 at the Ring and it was raining in parts of the track! Great video on Youtube. Whoever is driving is a real wheel man and almost crashed at least 4 times by my count.

 

Nurburgring Lap Times: 2014 Camaro Z28 Tops Published Times | Chevrolet - YouTube

 

Good Post. I agree. When your engine charges by petrol you can feel it. On the road there's not enough braking to recharge KERS so we're reprogramming road P 4/5 C to charge at a light (Idle RPS) and at highway cruise. From braking on a Ring lap we could make "only" 50 HP for 50s from braking so I'd think a lot of fuel/hp would be needed to charge more. As for how fast you can recharge it depends on liquid and AC cooling of batteries and how long you want them to last. Faster recharging, shorter life. Less cooling, lower life span.

Your point about "Shouting it from the roof tops" is key. Google McLaren P1 Ring time. The web clearly thinks it's 7:04.

 

+1 really great observation. Something tells me Ferrari would be doing the same thing! Any boots on the ground have a chance to see if Ferrari were testing as hard as Porsche was?

The other thing is that I just don't think Ferrari cares if they are quicker or not, it will still be 'the' car to have just because it's a LaFerrari. Ferrari may have gone out to the 'ring with the mindset being that if they break the lap time, they will tell everyone, if they don't, they will call it 'just testing, not going for a lap'.

 

Jim since we have determined that both the 918 and the P1 lose full charge over the course of a Ring lap do you think on a shorter circuit where there is more both high and low speed braking that they will be able to maintain full charge lap after lap?

 

No. I think that on a Ring Lap there is a lot of braking and 50HP for 50s just from braking is the practical limit.

None of these will be two lap wonders.

Lap after Lap for 24 Hours is a lot different from one hot lap. I personally don't think that any of these three will be interesting lap after lap track day cars.

 

Jim, with all your motor knowledge and now what you know, can you say what you believe will be best ring time for Laferrari and P1? Thank you.

 

Here the thing. HP matters but down force matters a lot more. The Key is how much you can make at the ride height needed to run The Ring. P1's 7:04 is an interesting time as it shows how much work they need to do to run faster at The Ring. In the end I think 918 will beat P1.

If Ferrari spends the time to get a hot Ring lap I'd guess that they'd be faster than P1 and 918 but I'm not sure that they will bother as they don't have to, to sell La Ferrari's and it would take a lot of work and testing.

Our numbers as a guide.

HP 530 Petrol/50HP KERS for 50s.
Weight 2950LB
Mechanical grip 2.8 G's
Down force 2800LB at 125 MPH
Hard Compound Race Tires.
6:51 (NS) lap.

None of them seem to have tires that will last for a full hot lap which isn't surprising for road tires at the Ring.

As Tool Fan said La Ferrari is troubled by tires and battery cooling at The Ring and I believe him.

I would bet if Ferrari Posts a time it will be below our 6:51...

 

I think it may depend on what you mean by "lap after lap." For a typical track day session, it might be possible depending on the track. For a longer, race-type session, I doubt it. At a track like Road America, where there are large sections allowing for discharge of batteries and fewer sections allowing for recharging, you probably wouldn't get more than 4-5 laps out of even the Porsche, if the Ring result is anything to go by. On a more point and shoot track with few long straights, you might get 15-20 minutes out of it.

 

What tires on that Camaro? I find it hard to believe it is faster than a 458 which has 60 more HP and probably 300 kgs less.

 

Napolis, what are your tire sizes?

 

Hey Andrew...video doesn't lie but as you can see the car was a bloody handful..I think the Z28 has R compound tires

 

P4/5 Competizione - Technical data

 

very impressive for z28. i believe tires are mich cup tires but not sure if runflat or not. has anyone ever compiled a ring lap time vs car price? bet this chevy would be near the top of that list

 

"The Z/28's rocking Pirelli Trofeo R's. Expensive? Yes. Standard? Yep! Fun fact: The Z/28 has the largest front tires of any current production road car on the market. 305's on all four corners."

 

Nordschleife lap records - FastestLaps.com

 

No, funny that you believed a rumour. I think it will be under 7 minutes and faster than LaFerrari.