Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

B2G is a credible source. I know and believe them.

 

The car was finished , they went to get under 7 and got 704 .
What will they do to the car ? Turn up the boost ?

It is a debacle , whatever happens now no one will believe it .

 

Actually, I will believe what they release. McLaren is a very credible company dedicated to excellence. Of course, they may turn up the boost, as you say, or they may make some other tweaks to the car, but I am sure that the published number will be truthful.

 

No, theyre not any more dangerous than any other hybrid system. Even some city buses use capacitors for hybrid power.

 

Soon to be delivered in the UK - photos by sobberz on IG.

>8^)
ER
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If you turn up the boost then is vehicle in question relevant to what is on sale ?

 

Agreed.

But then how much of this Nurburgring stuff is relevant?

 

As all three market their Ring time or how fast that time "will" be they must think it is.

The huge amount of money spent to test and win at The Ring by manufactures speaks for itself.

 

So, what is it like to drive at the ring for the first time. Remember the movie "Heat" After the shootout at the bank, there is a short moment when you think "great shootout, now lets get back to the story" Then the shooting simply continues for another 20 minutes in some of the best action in movie history. It is not just the turns, but the way the surface constantly, but never violently tries to compromise your line. This makes every lap different and it is close to impossible to make a perfect lap. Every perfect corner you get there you will have to fight for with the sweat of your brow and the sense of accomplishment is superb.

Argue as much as you like, but never forget that the ring is one of the do before you die things.

And the reason manufacturers test at the ring, is that a car that is fast (and durable) there, will be fast everywhere else.

 

Very True.

If you do exercise caution...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5z_9j3ybbX4

 

I have no doubt a lot of manufacturers pile a bundle into the Ring. They didn't used to, perhaps they won't in the future, I don't know why they do it.

I've no idea whether the ultimate Ring time actually makes a car more exciting and enjoyable for me, a normal driver. All I can see is many cars getting technically more impressive and insanely fast, converging to similar ends because they chase lap times, and IMO losing something along the way.

The new 991 GT3 is meant to be fantastic, but is the choice between it and the Turbo merely whether one wants NA or not?

Love the ring for what it is, and amazing racing!

 

They do because it sells cars and because it helps them to develop and test their cars. The number of permanent manufacture test centers (and tire manufacturers) at The Ring is large and growing.

Buyers (rightly or wrongly) care about Ring Times. The net traffic that watches Ring Video's and talk about Ring Times is HUGE. The 230,000 people who watch the 24 there isn't the smallest racing crowd these days. Autoweek reported around 6,000 fans at the last WEC US race...

 

Maybe. A relatively cheap place to develop cars backed by marketing, and as more manufacturers pile in it becomes self fulfilling. It wouldn't be the first time rational business people followed the herd would it. But I am not close enough to the auto industry to know much about it.

Does it make for good cars for enthusiast owners who are just normal drivers, which was my original point? My contention is not necessarily, judging by where things are going.

 

Many Manufactures have been testing their cars and tires there for many, many years.

Porsche, MB, BMW, Maserati, Aston, Jaguar, Bentley, Audi, KIA, Toyota, Hundai, Nissan, Honda, Mazda, Ford, Corvette, GM, Chrysler, Renault, Dunlop, Michelin, Falken, Hankook, Goodyear, Pirelli, Pagani, Ferrari, etc. etc. etc.

 

You make a very valid point there. The Dodge Viper is a great example to your concern. The Dodge Viper ACR set the old "ring" record at 7:12. I can tell you from experience that driving the ACR on the street is not very comfortable as a daily driver due to its stiff suspension components. Driving the Viper SRT on the other hand is much more tolerable.

This is the very reason that I am entertaining the new P1. This vehicle and its suspension dynamics are designed to accommodate multiple environments with its ability to adjust ride height and suspension dampening rates depending upon which environment you are in. A very high performing vehicle that can also provide comfort and conveniences when needed.

 

You trust McLaren and Ron Dennis of the Spygate fame? For real?

 

I beg to differ. The NS Ring requires a different set up to Monza or Spa, or even the Ring GP circuit!

 

I think that development at the 'Ring absolutely does help manufacturers make better cars, at least from a performance and handling opportunity. It's a unique location that's about as close as you can come to consistently running at 10/10ths on a public road, and that lets car makers optimize their cars to those standards—which in turns means the production models perform better at "normal" speeds on regular roads.

However, I think 'Ring lap times and performance aren't much of a dealmaker/dealbreaker for most buyers. It's a nice statistic to tout if your car does exceptionally well—for example, I'm sure Chevy will boast early and often that the Camaro Z/28 beat the Lexus LFA around the 'Ring—but I don't think Nürburgring lap times are the deciding factor very often when it comes to choosing what car to buy. Chevy people, Camaro people, and inexpensive performance car people would buy the Z/28 even if it were 20 seconds slower at the 'Ring.

I think the Porsche 918 got a sales bump not primarily because it's the new 'Ring lap leader, but because setting an outrageous lap time assuaged a lot of folks' fears that all that weight and batteries would make it a dog. IMHO.

 

When it comes to producing cars, and selling them to the public, the answer is "yes."

I understand Spygate. But one thing about Dennis is that he is a perfectionist and he does not have a reuptation for cutting corners. When his drivers were competing for WDCs he famously refused to institute team orders. I represented one of his drivers, and it was to my great consternation that he would not impose team orders.

When he gave interviews, he was always candid about the car/driver/team and its pluses and minuses.

If he takes a P1 to the ring and has to increase boost, I am sure he will report that his P1 achieved a time of _____ and he will give you the "set up" of the car.

Let's say he 'tweaks' the P1 to get it under 7 minutes. Don't you think that this tweak will become a permanent change to the P1? I do. And that means, simply, that the car has been improved.

 

Tweaking a car in order to post a star laptime to the detriment of reliability or drivability is not a serious approach and does not give credit to the already shattered fame of RD.

 

Even if it was tweaked as I suggested a few post back so as to get the magic sub 7, do you think anyone would ever try and match it. It would most likely never be known.

 

Indeed.

And only God knows what there was under the hood of that Porsche. But we have to believe what we are told...

 

already shattered fame of RD?

what does that mean? one of the most successful motor sports entrepreneurs in history?

 

Exactly. This is all about bragging rights between manufactures for marketing purposes. These cars are so extreme that very few owners will ever experience their ultimate capabilities for that matter.

 

Did you used to represent David Coulthard?

I only ask because several times on the BBC's F1 coverage he has mentioned that team orders were used many-a-time when he was at McLaren alongside Mika Hakkinen!

If, as you suggest, McLaren never instigated team orders then I guess that makes Coulthard a liar and I can no longer believe what he says during race coverage!