Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Dennis was never directly implicated.

On the other hand, Dennis was captain of the ship when it hit the rocks, so he is responsible.

Having met Dennis on a number of occasions, I believe him to be a man of good character, and I know he is passionate about racing.

 

I represented Mika. And, I will admit that my comments may seem a bit skewed. You cannot help but have a perspective when you are this close to it.

As for the orders . . .

At one particular race (1998 Australia) Mika and David made a gentlemen's agreement between the two of them that they would race to the first corner. After that, they would remain in position and not take out each other. Someone hacked into Mika's radio and he was told to pit, when the team was not there. This dropped him to second place. So David did concede the position, pursuant to their gentlemen's agreement. (Coulthard was always and is always a gentleman.)

Taking out each other was a serious concern then. In 1999 at the A-1 Ring, Coulthard punted Hakkinen off the track on the first lap.

Back then the teams were allowed to run a spare car. It had been the McLaren tradition to alternate the spare car's set up each race between Hakkinen and Coulthard. However, when Mika was emerging as a serious contender for the WDC, the team did start setting up the spare car for Mika--so that is one form of team order.

But, other than Australia 1998, I am not aware of a time when David was told to let Mika by. Obviously, I did not have on the headphones, and obviously I have a side to take. But my buddies and I often wondered why Dennis would not "help" Mika more. I mean, both Schuey and Irvine (during the Shuey broken leg period) clearly helped each other in a much more visible way.

Since I don't listen to DC's broadcasts--they MUST be better than Lee Diffy--I can't offer a specific comment. You know Lee Diffy -- {shouting} "AND CHARLES PIK PASSES CHILTON FOR P16!!!!!!!!!"

 

Kind of like us 2012 McLaren 12C Owners were told to bring our cars in for a HP increase from 600 PS (592) to 625 PS (616) with a ton of other modifications that made the car faster, better sounding, etc. for free.

Nice thing about a Turbo (especially P1) is that engine can easily have its boost turned up to 800 BHP and each and every P1 will get the upgrade for free.

 

P1 is back on the 'Ring. I'm betting the time will shock all the naysayers.

 

Any links confirming that? I bet they turned up the boost like a mofo

 

LETS HOPE!!!

 

There's really nothing to guarantee McLaren were going all out on their previous attempt that generated the rumored 7:04 time. People have been quick to blast the car over that time, but I think that's a bit short sighted.

We see all the time in Formula One where teams like RedBull don't always lead the time charts in early practice sessions, but then often dominate in qualifying. Some call it sand bagging, but it's a fact that you sometimes don't show your true speed until it matters.

Suggestions were made they were there focusing on various sectors of the track and there was also no evidence in any of the video footage that the P1's Drag Reduction capability was ever used which certainly offers a competitive advantage for the car.

We also saw LaFerrari doing laps at the Ring a few weeks ago and in my opinion from watching the footage that car didn't look to be reaching for its full potential either. Had a time surfaced from those attempts by someone standing beside the track I am sure it would not have made good headlines either.

The suggestions being made now that the only way the P1 will achieve a better time is by cheating is frankly irresponsible and inappropriate.

>8^)
ER

 

+1 Erik.

 

No, they're not there to cheat. The car is more than capable of breaking the current record.

Photo by 'Thomas S Photos'.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

The most irresponsible participator in this entire affair is McLaren.

They generated their own hype, made their own promises, and then allowed a time to be rumored/posted/leaked/whatever'd that was nothing short of a letdown.

The 7:04--again, whether rumored/posted/leaked/whatever'd--is a marketing/PR failure. Why did McLaren even let the time get out? If they were running soft on the day of the 7:04, why didn't they pay the track to disconnect the lap time display so that people wouldn't even have the chance to think that they were trying? Why didn't they shut the place down and take everyone's iPhones away?

In the world of Nurburgring lap times as PR stunts, McLaren should know that the first time that the public sees is always either the best or the worst.

I am supportive of your opinion: I do hope McLaren can really obliterate the record. I want to see them actually push the envelope to the degree that they claim to have pushed it.

But after the hype, the fat Porsche, and the unconcerned Italians, the 7:04 was a disaster.

 

McLaren don't control the whims or motivations of the Bridge to Gantry blog. To suggest they "allowed" that time to be released is false.

>8^)
ER

 

In your own words, the 7:04 was "leaked" and not an official time.

Perhaps, we should sit tight and see what happens. When McL decides to publish a time, there will be ample opportunity to blow holes in it. Until the, let's enjoy all cars--I think the world is a better place with the P1 in it.

 

+P1

 

I am enjoying these 3 cars, and I like the P1 a lot. I'm simply enjoying them by discussing the "VS" quality of this thread as related to the choice of all 3 manufacturers to use the Nurburgring as a marketing tool.

I think it is very interesting that McLaren are in this position. Hype, promises, looks--and then a 7:04. That it might have been leaked or rumored doesn't really matter. All that matters is that a time has been attached to the P1, and it isn't a good time.

I hope they can fix that problem.

 

7:04 is actually a fantastic time for a road car, it just doesn't compare favorably to what the 918 has done now.

I can't recall any instance where a rumored time from the Ring got this much attention. I can't help but think there could have been motivation behind its release, without any proof and without any context for how it was recorded or exactly what occurred during the lap - that's assuming it has any basis in fact. A lot can happen over almost 13 miles and more than 170 turns and someone standing at the start line with a stopwatch is not going to be aware of much more than what they can see in front of them.

McLaren deserve the chance to tell their own Ring story and I believe their intent is to do so very soon.

>8^)
ER

 

I think they will be fine.

And, while there is a psychological feeling of "defeat" at anything 7:00 or greater, the truth is that 7:04 is a good time. The problem is the McL set the bar high, and then Porsche drew a big line in the pavement with their Sub 7:00 time.

I like the fact that McL and probably Ferrari are 'hittin' the books' to find a few seconds here and there. It is fun to watch.

Hey, if Napolis can do it with a kit car using a 430 engine and a few bolt on batteries, then it can't be too hard, right? I mean, it's not like he had a chicken farmer as a driver or anything like that.

(Before I get shot, dear readers, that last paragraph was a humorous attempt at respect for building a machine that blasted away at the seven minute mark.)

 

Jim, with your extensive knowledge of performance cars, may you tell us if you think the P1 will be extremely quickly around the N'ring when McLaren decide for using full acceleration and full braking around the track for an official time? What is your estimate of the time? 7:03, 6:58, 6:56 or something that will show the world that McLaren mean serious business when they say they are the most fast on any track in the world?

 

Everybody knows that he was 100% implicated in the affair based on how he managed the Team. He is well known to be a bit of a micro-manager who likes (liked) to make all the decisions for the team.

It is impossible that he didn't know about it....he was just good that he managed not to be directly involved and implicated.

Extremely successful motor sports entrepreneurs that is true though

 

Xp2r beat 918s time

 

What time?

 

link?

 

Let me say this first . . . I happen to like Ron Dennis. I have met him and he is extremely gracious. (Perhaps it was because I was introduced to him through one of his drivers.) He has manners to a fault, and is--at least socially--the perfect gentleman. I think this is why he and Coulthard got along so well. Coulthard is also gracious and accommodating. And, he does micromanage. He was very concerned with the McL livery on the cars--taking in excruciating detail on how the car looked.

As I said in my post, he was the captain of the ship and he bears responsibility. He also paid a $100 million fine. But, I think---and this is simply my opinion--that he didn't know about spygate. I think his staff was so concerned with his 'hands on' approach that they tried to keep it secret. In that sense, he was a victim of his own system. But please understand . . . this is my opinion. My contact with him did NOT give me any special insight on this issue, and I would not risk my credibility saying otherwise. I mean, he could have masterminded the situation and made it turn out the way it did.

On another note, when Mika and David were racing, McL had a very PRIVATE person sponsor their cars. This person did not want accolades or notoriety. So, Dennis and his marketing department came up with a splash of color to "recognize" the sponsor without plastering his name everywhere. You can see it on this picture . . . a burnt orange smudge to 'recognize' this investor. Mika had a private meeting with him before the would fund the sponsorship.

In the photos of the cars below, notice that one has the orange on the nose and one doesn't. This is the livery change for the sponsor.

On the helmet, look at the orange on the "temple" portion of the helmet. (In later versions of the helmet, the orange splotch was replaced with the orange McLaren 'shwoosh.')
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Very cool! Is that person still inVolved? There is one person who I'm guessing it would be....

I have a dinner meeting with a very senior McLaren person (top 3) in Austin; contrary to internet opinion, that group has always been very cordial and honest with me.
(As has Ferrari for that matter, but I'm very small-time)
Kevin

 

I don't know. I don't think so. I lost touch with those guys when Mika retired.

PM sent.

 

Mac back at ring !
McLaren P1 returns to snatch Nurburgring lap record (2013) | Secret New Cars | Car Magazine Online