I think I'm done with Ferrari

OP--

I'm convinced that at this point, the only way someone like you (or me) is going to get to driving happiness is to buy something and then make it completely their own.

Look at this video: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAY5fRglsb4]Bugatti Head of Design's Personal 911 Project - /DRIVEN - YouTube[/ame]. It's about the 911 owned by the head of design at Bugatti. Empty interior (save seats, pedals, and gear knob), shaved engine bay, carbon body panels, mechanical everything. This car would be a blast at 5mph. It would buzz and resonate. It would reward and punish.

Modern cars in general--not just Ferraris--don't do this at all, and that's because driving is no longer something you do, but is something that the car does for you.

Find something with a steel frame from the 60s or 70s that you can't resist the look of, and then personalize it to such a degree that no one would ever buy it. Forget about selling it and embrace the idea of an ongoing project that you'll never be satisfied with.

 

Very cool car. Love the engine and interior and at 1800lbs it must perform pretty good. I'd love to have that car but don't know if I could live without some Singer wheel flares. It would be cool to see a early carbed fiberglass 308GTB done in a similar fashion as the engines and compartments are very simple already.

 

Maybe this is why retro rods are getting big money at the auctions. Car guys are craving involvement in the driving experiance.

If Ferrari built a new 308 type of car, they wouldn't be able to build them fast enough. Small, mid engine, three pedals, and maybe abs brakes. 300hp and geared for fun, not 200mph. Just a really fun true drivers car.

 

Basically a Cayman / Boxster, in other words.

 

Not really no. A real drivers car as only Ferrari could do it. The cayman is close but just not quite raw enough. Although it is a really fun car.

 

Totally agree. This is exactly why I love the Mondial and specifically the 3.2 cab. Hand built Ferrari with manual steering, no ABS, cabriolet, with decent power from a rock solid Ferrari engine that likes to rev, gated shifter, three pedals, mid engine, and rear drive. Wow! What a list of core must have items right there. Sounds fast, feels fast, looks fast, but at the end of the day, it is more than fast enough. Incredible little car. Old school Ferrari par excellence. Attracts some attention, but not too much. Fully depreciated. Engine in major. Has some useable space for trips, plus a back seat, which is generally a no-no in the sports car world, but truly useful in the real world. And no issue whatsoever driving it to work, like I did today, a gorgeous fall day. Best of all worlds IMHO. Absolutely one of the greatest Ferrari hidden gems right now. I love it.

 

As raw experience as possible,without spending over a million on a real thing.

1965 Kirkham Cobra for sale | Hemmings Motor News

 

Perhaps the Boxster Spyder would be raw enough for you.

 

try the new lotus exige v6, very raw

Mayor, did you think your 430 was more fun then the 458?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

Wow, 32 pages of suggestions and i could only get through 10. I dont even know if Bob responded yet but my guess is he wasnt looking for suggestions, just an op to vent.

I, on a smaller scale, covered my Mondial up for a few months and rolled out my '69 chevy for a change of pace. Sent 15k to an engine and trans builder to replace the stock setup and tomorrow i will ship my Mondial to Dave Helms for the winter, while im enjoying my freshly restored '69 hotrod till summer

As all, we need to mix it up from time to time.

 

Interesting comment and I agree, it's not about you. However unless we're talking dog years here, if I created the same thread it wouldn't of gotten half the attention this one has. Fact of the matter, the marque can be compared to the same concept. 10 year old boy sees first red car, follows it and in turn the marque earns 10 year old boys respect. Judging by your past comment of the 308(or 328) to 430 lapse or recess of affection towards the brand, maybe we could say you failed to appreciate or recognize the effort they've put towards the industry.
You're fortunate enough to buy. Unless your intentions were purely to create a conversation I think the title of this thread should be changed.

 

Maybe I'm a sour puss but I think the current market offerings is what the market supports. Ferrari has shown they will build anything for the right amount of money but they no longer build a manual trans. That is the market speaking. I don't agree with it, but I'm not the market, I own a 26 year old Mondial. They don't care about my opinion. And if they built our dream car it may not sell at all. Unless it has mega HP it won't tickle the fancy of volume of buyers needed. And regardless of what they build it is out of my price range. There are a number of products that come to market that I want to support but can't afford to and I've seen many of those products fail. Most buyers need something they can actually use to get from point a to point b. What we want is something utterly impractical and uncomfortable that makes no sense to the general public. It just doesn't sell. For raw, are they still building the Ariel Atom? And if anyone has the money, again, Ferrari will make anything you want.

 

You know it's interesting. I thought this thread would last 2 or three pages and then die. It'***** a cord with enthusiasts, of which I consider myself.

Some agree, some disagree. That's why we are all here.

 

+1000

The subject of visceral, raw, and connection to the road seems important for some of us enthusiasts. I still believe Lotus is the most "raw" of all modern day street cars.
I have a gutted track Elise, street Exige S260 for DD, and Lotus 211. They are all absolutely thrilling to drive. More raw than my 16M.
Variety is the spice of life.
I've also seen your thread on the 4C and I'm anxious to see how this turns out - it may be a Lotus killer.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

It's not just cars changing that pisses this crowd off.

 

Well, in response to the most recent post, the fact that the Mayor has owned a bunch of Ferraris at least means his opinion is based in experience and not mere speculation. If someone expressed his opinions and had never gotten closer to a Ferrari that reading a car mag, then the statements would be ludicrous.
I don't agree with everything he says, but his thoughts have at least been derived through real-world experience.

 

I know, just trying to bring some light heartedness to the thread. There has been good points in this thread, and at some level I feel your frustration. It's hard to recreate that feeling of excitement throwing a car around at its limit on a regular basis in modern supercars. Some of the most fun I had when I was young was in a POS car that I could easily throw into a four wheel drift around corners. Whatever you end up with, I hope you enjoy it to its fullest.

 

Mayor, I keep thinking about your automotive plight. What about a hot rod?

 

I reply to your original post, the actual thread starter.
It got me thinking and perhaps because I am a bit slow, only now I offer my comment:
It sounds like you are fed-up with more of what revolves around Ferraris, rather than with the actual cars.
They are not perfect, to be sure, but still, all considered, they stand above the competition, IMO.
So do not allow the negative experience with some dealer(s) to affect your experience with the car(s).

 

+1. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and clearly people have had different experiences.

This Ferrari adventure for me (and my family) has been fun; thanks to Fchat, I sort of knew what to expect (good and bad) when we waded into it, including a lot of Bob's posts. I must say he was Mr. Ferrari Enthusiast for a long time, I asked back on Page 1 or 2 "what changed"...

In my opinion, the current cars are brilliant, and we drive all of ours. Raw, like a 69 Camaro? NFW. However, they are uber capable, and remarkably reliable. One issue may be it's hard to get the best out of these cars in "normal" driving; if we still lived in California I'd probably have given up on them by now (and would imagine the same in Vegas).

Honestly I don't mind the attention the car gets, I rather dislike some of the stereotypes of Ferrari owners held by many but I know I'm not an a__h___ so I don't take it personally. We've bought 4 Ferraris, and we had a good experience. Our dealer (and FNA?) were fair - perhaps far from my version of ideal on some things, but fair (and we were warned).

IIRC Bob put 1500 miles combined or so on his 430, 458 coupe and 458 over a period of several years. That sort of usage is one step above them being jewelry. We put on a few hundred miles a week; I have 3500 on my race car alone this year. If my cars were relegated to the garage or city driving on straight roads, I'd give up on this car thing pretty quickly, or just drive a Fiat and keep the fun cars for the track.

 

Not that I can afford a 458 but that's why I sold my C6 Corvette and bought a 308 that I'm modernizing the engine, suspension, and supercharging.

 

I think Ferrari is a special car and do enjoy it every bit. But I believe that no other manufacturer that is delivering a car with a sticker of over $250k would allow for a car to be delivered like that... scuffs on the dash straight from the dealership.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

There's a 458 I was window shopping recently, no real intent, but just looking. The carbon inserts on the dash weren't lined up properly left of the steering column. Caught an F12 up on a lift recently and saw orange peel all around the license plate bracket. Kinda funny. I'll bet if any of our wives are on a Gucci or Hermes forum or something, they're probably discussing common flaws in purses costing $10k. You'd think Rolex watches would always keep perfect time. Not really about being a perfect product. Wish I had a better analogy. My 612 isn't an accessory.

 

Perhaps an MX-5 Miata. Not overpowered but brings back the fun of driving a light roadster. Like an MG w/o any mechanical problems. I even had roll down windows to go with the manual roof. Many hours of driving fun. Not expensive. Good looking (everybody likes em). the performance at altitude sucks but at sea level great fun. and there are turbo and supercharged options in the aftermarket.

I taught all my children how to drive a stick in this car.

My wife had a British Racing Green/tan (before she met me)
I had a red/black (before I met her)
We were both at sea level at the time.

Or you could just get a Boxster S, have all the bells and whistles, mid-engine and 315 hp.
We love our 3 pedal Boxster S.

 

As I think about this, there is no objective best car.

We bring our biases, experiences and desires to the table expecting our dreams to be fulfilled. All of us are unique and have different creteria for the "perfect" car.

Cars are manmade and not perfect. So we do the best we can.

I love my 458 Spider and Boxster S. That's me. Find your dream car and go with what makes it happen for you.

May the horse be with you, bro.