MASSA DOESN'T SUCK

Have you considered changing your moniker to Tifosi27 for the remainder of the season? Seems appropriate!

 

Would love to see that statistic plotted by year!

 

Changing the moniker is a real pain for Rob. He only does it in extreme cases.

I like 27. Not so much because of Gilles but because that was Alan Jones' number when he was winning the title. And 28 was Regas. I loved the Williams team and both of its drivers. Those were the days that got me hooked on F1 for life.

 

No real surprises here but this is what Stefano Dominicalli has had to say about Massa (From: Robert Kubica won't return to F1 - Ferrari's Stefano Domenicali | Ferrari | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN.co.uk ) :

....Domenicali was also asked why Ferrari had retained Felipe Massa for so long, and admitted patience had finally run out this year.

"There are two reasons. From a medical point of view, there is no proof that the accident left any permanent damage, such as problems with his sight or reflexes. And then there's the gentility which would demand that we give a driver who hasn't had much luck, the chance to show he deserves to stay with us.

"If Felipe was unable to deliver the performance we hoped for, it was mainly down to a hyper-sensitivity to a car that was too nervous at the rear, but in 2008, he almost took the title and I consider him as a world champion".


Personally, I still think the decision to replace Massa was made at least 12 months later than it should have been!

 

I think you are way too kind. I would have given him 2010 to show what he had left. And that's probably still being a softy at heart. Most teams would have permanently replaced him right after the accident.

And that's not Massa bashing, that's just the cut-throat world of F1 business. Ferrari is way too sentimental about these things. Cost them millions in return.

 

Here's My thoughts on Massa's overstay:

At the end of the 2011 season I felt that realistically, Massa should go as he'd had a very disappointing season, but at the time, when I looked at who was available to replace him I wasn't convinced that any of them would be much of an improvement, if at all (the biggest thing that was always in Massa's favour when it came to Ferrari was that he was a team player who wouldn't rock the boat!).

I'd hoped that the previous season had just been a blip but the 2012 season was pretty much more of the same and very disappointing.

Right at the end of the season though, Massa seemed to suddenly wake up to the fact that his drive with Ferrari really was under threat along with his F1 career and he suddenly started to drive with more determination and get better results. This raised the hope that he could carry on this determination into the 2013 season and the "old" fast Massa would be back.

So we entered another season and I had high hopes that Massa would find his form again and get back to (almost) matching Alonso's pace, finishing races just behind him. But no! - Pretty soon it became obvious that we'd got the same lacklustre Massa from the start of the previous season who seemed to be simply going through the motions on race weekends. There was no fight, no determination -nothing!, and I realised that Ferrari had made an error keeping him.

And now that Ferrari have finally decided to drop him, he's decided to race for himself and ignore team instructions in order to show how he is still a true racer. The problem with doing that though is that other teams might be put off by the fact that he suddenly doesn't seem interested in doing what's best for the team. When you add that to his last few seasons, it's not that great an advert for a driving looking for a drive.

On a personal level Massa's a nice guy, but as an F1 driver, he's a gamble that some teams won't want to risk.

And as for Ferrari being to sentimental when it came to Massa, I think you're spot on! They got too attached to him and allowed it to cloud their better judgement.

 

and now they're replacing Massa with someone he convincingly beat.

Oh well.

 

You mean the guy who won the most recent WDC for Ferrari?

 

Yes! - That's how good Massa once was: Good enough to beat Kimi!

Sadly, those days are long gone!

This season so far, in races where Massa and Kimi have both finished, Massa has been ahead of Kimi in 3 races and Kimi has finished ahead of Massa in 9 races.

Massa's average finishing position in completed races so far this season is 7th.
Kimi's average finishing position in completed races so far this seasonis 4/5th (it works out to 4.5th).

Massa has accumulated a total of 90 points so far this season and sits 7th in the WDC.
Kimi has accumulated a total of 177 points this season and sits 3rd in the WDC.

Massa's Podium results are:
1st: 0 times
2nd: 0 times
3rd: 1 time


Kimi's Podium results are:
1st: 1 time
2nd: 6 times
3rd: 1 time


The 2012 season:
Massa finished 7th on 122 points
Kimi finished 3rd on 207 points.

The numbers would seem to indicate that since his comeback, Kimi has been the better driver!

 

We'll find out next year.

Not from Horse.

 

Uh, dare I hope you are adapting a new style of how races are viewed?

 

Peter, refresh my memory... do you think Vettel is better than Webber?

 

Who? Me? Yes.....by a country mile.

 

That is also the time frame after Massa;'s accident.

 

Luck not ability. McLaren lost it, Ferrari and Kimi did not win it.
Pete

 

Why'd you ask?

 

Kimi was certainly lucky that year but it was just Karma that he finally got the title which bad luck stole from him in his previous years at McLaren.

Kimi had/has the talent to get the title on several occasions. A bit like Mansell. Massa lucked into that opportunity only once through massive help by the FIA.

 

EJ's track record has seen better days

 

So does the same apply to Hamilton in 2008? - After all, he was lucky that Timo Glock (conveniently) ran out of grip right at the last corner, during the last lap of the last race of the season.

Had Glock's tyres held for that last corner, Hamilton wouldn't have a WDC and Massa would! - How lucky was that!

The point is - All drivers are affected by luck to one degree or another over the course of a season, both positively and negatively!

However, the history books for F1 are never going to say:

"2007 World Drivers Champion: Kimi Räikkönen (But he didn't really win it!)" - They simply state: 2007 World Drivers Champion: Kimi Räikkönen

Watching this (From 1:40 onwards), I don't see anyone saying: "Ah but Kimi, you're not really the 2007 World Champion! - Lewis is!" :

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdHmbdlvvM8]KRS FIA Gala Kimi Trophy - YouTube[/ame]

Over the course of the entire 2007 season, to the last corner of the last race, Ferrari, Kimi and Massa did a better job than McLaren did with Hamilton and Alonso! - That's a matter of fact!

How can it be? - Because over the course of the season, they did a better job of scoring the WDC points required to win the Championship!



Ferrari/Kimi were lucky that McLaren were incompetent that season? - Well that sort of logic can be applied to any season then!:

All of Schumacher's WDC's? - He was just lucky that the other team's didn't do a better job over the course of each of those seasons!

All of Vettel's WDC's? - He was just lucky that the other team's didn't do a better job over the course of those seasons!

All of Senna's WDC's? - Same again!

Prost? - Same!

Fangio - Same!

Etc., etc., etc! Based on your theory of luck, in all of the World championship seasons, the winners were simply lucky that other teams did not do a better job than they did!


Here's the reality and secret to winning the WDC:

Score more WDC points than your rivals! - It's that simple!

And in 2007 who managed to score the most WDC points?

 

Luck is part of racing and there's only one name in the record books.

In any given race or championship there are always guys who'll tell you how they would have won if....

 

4rePhil,

Okay I'll put it this way then: in fighting and the McLaren gate (SpyGate) gave the WDC to Ferrari and Kimi because McLaren took their eye off the ball.

Sure Kimi ended up with the most points but McLaren should be ashamed of themselves for ****ing up that season.

Well done Kimi and Ferrari, but it was a gift. That is why I believe Ferrari stirred up the McLaren gate. Not because they cared about the apparent copying, but because they were trying to destabilize McLaren to sneak away with the WDC ... and it worked. Remember it was a Ferrari employee that started it all by taking their documents ... worthy of a future James Bond movie with Todt laughing in the background as an ending.

Just my opinion and I'm sticking with it . Kimi will return to his lackluster unmotivated self now he is back with Ferrari. He understandably was trying to prove a point with his return in Lotus and all fired up. Point has been proved, now he can relax and rake in the $'s.
Pete

 

I can go along with that, something odd went on that year, and my bet is dickhead Mosley was behind it.

Besides had Mc won that year, it wouldn't have looked good knowing what went on, but I agree it was a gift, it was though Mc messed up on purpose.

 

If you understood Scuderia Ferrari, you would understand that Massa was simply Alonso's test mule. But then the peanut gallery is not known for reality. You have no idea what Massa is all about. No one here does.

And how Mosley's name got into this thread is simply ignorant.

 

Now it's time for him to go if there are no improvements next year

 

The problem with those not in the peanut gallery is that they're so busy quaffing champagne and trying to be seen with all of the "beautiful people" that they can't see the wood for the trees!

I tell you what though, I'll let you demonstrate your expertise on all things Scuderia Ferrari with a simple question:

If, as you seem to believe, Massa has done such a fine job over the last few seasons, why has he not got a contract with them for next season?

So by that very statement, you are including yourself in saying that you have no idea what Massa is all about!

Welcome to the club! - Have a peanut!