Why do the Ghiblis worth 4 times less than Daytona, Iso Grifo, and Bizzarini ?

One of the British magazines actually published a comparison between the Mistral Spyder and the AC 428 converible. IIRC, even some of the panels were identical (doors or doorskins) Neither are cheap today.

Same goes for the Ghibli Spyder, Daytona Spyder and I have never seen a Monteverdi Pal Beach for sale. Aston convertibles and Volantes are also way up there.

Perhaps the Jensen Intercepter is a good comparison in terms of what keeps values down?

Best,

Jack.

 

I guess the "love for her will live on ...".

I don't get all the hate for here out there but it twas just a play on words joke.

Espadas are an acquired taste for most. We're just weird Gary.

 

Gentlemen, I was looking at the roofline, not the headlights when I posted that.

I really think the Ghibli has more in common with the 428 than the Mistral.

Not to mention the V8.

 

It's a Ghibstral and quick let's call it a day before a Chubasco arrives ...

 

There are portions of the roofline and windows that look like the pantera too
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The Frua is a cobra chassis (CSX numbered ) stretched and re-bodied. The suspension is much too soft for the car and the few owners that I have known spent thousands of dollars to just make them road safe. The 428 Frua build quality is some of the worst I have seen. I would guess a Mistral could run circles around it.

 

The Mistral is a fantastic car by far the best of the Maserati straight 6 cars. The biggest problem is that the rear glass hatch styling is not to everyone's taste.

 

there is a common thread in these cars, it is Ghia, Giorgetto Giugiaro designed the Mangusta and the Zonda. Detomaso is reputed to have used Frua for some work (according to W Wyss) for the Sport5000 misproprotioned 1st prototype (Pete Brock redid all the work with Fantuzzi for the final car). Tom Tjaarda picked-up after GG left and "used" a succesfull profile with a Gandini suspension. If you look at the "portotypes'" produced at Ghia in the period they often used and reworked products they had on the floor.

Look at the Serennesimas (rebodied Mangusta)


Mustella and Pampero had Mangusta windshield, doors and A pillars
Khamsin is a reworked updated Ghibli
Longchamp (Ford Powered) was a reworked Ghia Marica (proposed to Lancia)
Maserati Kyalami was a reworked Longchamp (with a Maserati motor)
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All of these are from a period wherein the transition from round to more angular shapes was made, and few of them were balanced. Styling was looking for new directions, and at times looked in the wrong places.

Ghibli is certainly a good mix and one of the best of this school.

Best,

Jack.

 

Yes and i heard that the Datsun 240 Z was based on this car!

 

Again back to the value issue. I do not see any good Ghiblis change hands at all. Restoration is as expensive as a Daytona (maybe less complicated engine IF you get all the spareparts you need) but why should any collector sell a car that cost him including the restoration basis (even they start at 50k EUR plus) easily 200k EUR?
I would say in the real world, IF a good Ghibli - no matter if 4.7 or 4.9 - turns up, it will be quickly sold not below 150k EUR, maybe even closer to 200k. I am speaking fully restored cars, all detailed and with right bits and pieces. Such cars were two years ago 100, maybe 120k EUR; so not a bad improvement.
So we are far away from 4 times for a Daytona.
The general market may also have to do with another fact: all the breed, maybe excluding the Panthera, are hard to drive cars for today's standards. Who has seen a Daytona or Bizzarini (if not a Diamante one...) (not to mention Miuras...) on the road? Because of value? - I think it is more of heavy clutch, steering, inefficient A/C and so on. So considering some really bad "sales-resprayed" Ghiblis around, some potential owners try them, find them hard to live with and go somewhere else.
I predict Ghiblis will go further up - as others indicated in this thread - once the really bad stuff is off, either restored or broken for spares - that will be the time People will start to appreciate the style, the plesure and the understatement of this magnificent car.
Let's not forget: they easily sold out in their days all competitors for a reason!

 

Agreed!

 

Wow. A few years back, I met a guy at a car show with a Grifo. He was about my age, purchased the car in his early 20s (around 1987 or so). The guy loved American / Italian hybrids, and also owned a Pantera, an Intermeccanica, etc.

He was in the market for a Ford GT, so he was selling the Grifo - I think he was asking around $130K, which in his mind was CRAZY money since he purchased it for peanuts.

Amazing that some of these cars are even higher than that. Suffice to say, this gentleman (I never saw him again) made some outstanding auto investments!!

 

The local market plays a huge role in the sale price.

For example, most people in Europe wouldn't give a rats ass (around $1) for those american-italian hybrids, while at the same time, a Maserati Bora in the US is really hard to sell (especially at auction), while here in Europe they are quite easy to sell.

A friend just sold a Pantera that he had in his family for ages, in order to get a Ghibli SS. Interestingly, he sold the Pantera without ever driving it in his life, while his Ghibli SS is now nearly his daily driver.

the 3 important things in real estate ("location, location, location") are also important in selling a car, I guess?

 

Bizzarrini shouldn't be included in that list it's a good car to drive once your in. One member here drove his 5300 3-4 thousand miles on a trip this summer and loved it. The reason you don't see them more often is not the clutch it's that they only made a hundred of them.

 

The one from Canada?

 

That's an interesting observation. I think you're right. Evidence the migration of Khamsins from the USA to Europe.

 

I think location matters for the more obscure cars - like trying to sell a Hotchkiss in the US or a Graham-Paige in Europe, but cars like Iso's and Bizzarrinis aren't obscure. Any enthusiast who doesn't know who Giotto Bizzarrini is or his relationship to both cars isn't really an enthusiast.
An imperfect 7 liter Iso Grifo sold for $259,000 in London last month. The Classic Cars price guide shows (converted to dollars) $130k-good/$243k-concours for that car and $324k/$567k for the Bizzarrini 5300 Strada. The same guide gives $49k/$124k for the Bora; not so different from the US. Apparently Europeans, with one exception, see it about the same way we do.

 

A single auction doesn't tell us much, the buyer could be from the US, or just an exception really.

It is true that these hybrids don't have much standing around here.

Try selling a Bora in the US and let us know how that goes...

 

A completely restored Bora has been for sale in Sweden for over a year .... still unsold ... asking price approx 100.000 EUR .... seems to be a nice car !!

 

Interesting, because I've been monitoring Boras for quite some time and I don't remember a Bora from Sweden.

There is an immaculate Bora in Italy, which claims to have only 3,700 km! But it hasn't been advertised much, I think its in mobile right now.

There are a few others in Anamera but they are US versions and people steer away from them, so that is reasonable to remain unsold.

Do you have a link to the advert of the Bora in Sweden?

 

In Stock | Callisma AB, Callisma Selected, köpa sportbil, sportbilar

Here is the link to the dealer. Looks nice but missing rear bumper.

 

Nice car, lots of work done to it.

Probably won't sell to someone looking for originality, since the car has way too many modifications (exhaust, bumpers, seat belts, license plate, mirrors, some interior stuff, cheesy valve caps, etc)...

maybe people see all those changes and steer away?

 

Khamsins were even worse for a long time. Now I think it's a lot better here but yes they all sell for more in Europe. I think the Khamsin will always have a hard time here because we have zero experience with that style of steering and it's the antithesis of what most people here are looking for in an expensive high performance car. Then there's the brakes for all the LHM cars. Again, we have very little experience but once you get used to it it's great especially at very high speeds. The trouble is that these days very few get to drive these cars at high speeds and if you take the car out infrequently then transitioning from that sort of a braking system to a standard one found in a high performance car can be shocking. In heavy traffic it's not the greatest to try and drive smoothly either. Either is a Miura or Daytona for that matter but the systems are more familiar. Over here it's just a weird ass furrin' French system to most folks. That's too bad. It really does hold up much better than a standard brake fluid based system.

They did put it on a few Indy's as well.

 

Indeed staatsof, the last few Indys produced had the LHM as well.

The Bora is an interesting beast. It was truly a huge undertaking by Maserati at that time, in many ways. For example, the manufacturing process was of the highest quality compared to all previous cars they had built. Materials, construction and even design ideas all where new and very carefully planned.

Interesting examples are the "silencing" carpet/cover for the engine, the double-window to minimize noise from the engine, the V8 in the middle and the exceptional dashboard.

The Bora was the very first car that Maserati actually used real Quality Assurance testing in their production. People think that "hand made" means that the door will fall off (as someone famous once said), but the Bora was properly made, compared to previous cars.

I personally don't like the LHM system, but excluding that, the Bora is truly remarkable.

Which other car gives you the ability to store your umbrella in the engine compartment? awesomeness!