Hi All I'm new to this forum and am not a Ferrari owner as such, unless you count some Ninco and Fly slot cars, I am a mechanic who for his sins gets to fix the occasional Ferrari and smoke them about from time to time, at the moment I am poking through a 250 Lusso that has a fair number of niggly problems to address, it was being driven on a relatively regular basis up until six months ago when a puddle of brake fluid appeared under the master cylinder added to that the growing list of other things that needed attending to it was decided, mostly by me, that it needed a good going over. For quite some time it had been producing a fairly distinct rumble from the front of the engine and I think after listening with a long screwdriver that the bearings in the ancillary drive are knackered so the engine is out at present but I have not pulled the timing cover and what not off yet, so what I need to know is, are there any thing that is not obvious about dismantling the front end of a 250 Engine, I have been told the bearings can be done without too much dismantling but I want to inspect and probably replace the timing chain and replace the water pump bearings and seals and the rollers in the cam chain tensioner. In addition is the cam timing on a Lusso any different to a GTE of the same vintage as I will need to check the timing at some stage, Many thanks Bill.
I am definitely better with a check book than with a screw driver when it relates to mechanical work,,,but my experience on partial engine rebuilt,,or even partial restoration has been abysmal. Every time i touched the top end, the bottom end of the engine leaked. Doing the bottom end without fixing the cams and valves is a loss of time and money. Doing timing chain without addressing the other issues in my view is the same as there is no reason that all the parts of an engine will not age at the same speed. But opening an engine means usually going back to crankshaft, more often below lower size,,to piston, conrods etc etc..sad story but I don't know any other long term approach if one wants a reliable car. And while I can understand the hesitation of someone owning a 20k car,,,with a million dollar car things should be done correctly. And I would never buy a car except as a restoration project from someone who would tell me he did the top end of the engine or anything short of a full rebuilt in a reputable shop and with pictures showing. And even a fully rebuilt engine can blow up as experienced in Tour Auto 2008 when a fully rebuilt dynoed GTB engine blew up in the straight at Paul Ricard. Valve broke at 7500 rpm and was smashed between the piston and head and blew the head off..and all the oil/ water went down on the piste,,just before the corner..sorry guys for the direct followers who experienced some off piste excursions!
I think BIRA makes some good points. I have reviewed a number of engine rebuilds.289/308 Fords are one thing. 50+ year old V12 Ferraris is a whole different situation.A nice service record is one thing but how the car is driven and taken car of by previous owners is a whole different ballgame. How many head removals replace the valve guides,install the best type replacement gaskets or replace the studs? How was the car driven, rev limits, warm ups, up and down shifts speed events etc all hard to verify. If a 50 year old engine has not had a complete rebuild by a well known and reputable shop with detailed paperwork detailing every aspect of the work then this should be done now with the engine already out. When this old engine was originally built materials, castings, and building tecnhiques etc were nothing like they can be today. There is not much difference between the engine in the 250 Lusso and the steel bodied 250 SWB and there are perfectly good reprints of the rebuild manuals.There are however some unique tools that are needed to do the rebuild correctly. Years ago FAF put out an operating, service and maintenance manual specificly for the 250 Lusso. There are a number of pages devoted to the engine which might be of interest. If you send me your PO address I can make copies and send them to you.tongascrew
I owned this car, 7781GT twice and the second time when this happened , I was so upset I sold it as is and traded it partly for my 500 MD! It was only the head and I don't know what happened afterwards, either you can weld ( but it was a pretty big hole!) or you find/ put a new head.
Dingbat: 1. The cam timimg for a Lusso is identical to a 250 GTE. The flywheel is marked with Intake Opening and Exhaust Closing on Overlap for each bank. 2. In the center of the chaincase, you will find a brass plug with an allen head socket. This must be removed and then you will see a special hollow bolt with a slotted head. You will need to make up a tool to remove this bolt. The bolt transfers the oil from after the filter to the block main galley. 3. The chain case can be removed without removing the heads, but not easily. It is a complex job. 4.Are you sure the noise you are hearing is not a loose chain? Check the chain tension before you get crazy.
Hi thanks for the help, the engine works fine overall, runs on all twelve despite mummified plug leads ect, no smoke, no major leaks and good oil pressure, its possible to find parts to replace on any engine once its torn to bits but all there is an odd noise coming from the middle at the front, the motor is not going to be taken to bits as it does not need it, the car is not thrashed and with the type of use it gets the motor should have a long and happy life once some issues are addressed such as tracking down the source of this odd noise, I have rebuilt a number of Aston V8's and straight sixes, Porsche flat sixes and Jaguar motors, Alfa's too,so I am familiar with timing chains, to me this sounds like a rumbling bearing rather than the thrash of a loose chain or the whine of a tight one, I would like to take up the offer of a copy of the Lusso info but I can't figure out how to send a personal message, I have a sort of loose leaf book on the Lusso with servicing info and specs and found some good stuff on a site called Ferrari 250 GTE.com. I was going to try to replace the ancillary drive bearings without pulling the motor but did not fancy working over the front wings, and the motor mounts have collapsed and it needs a clutch, didn't know about the clutch until I pulled the gearbox and found the plate well into the rivets. On the subject of engine mounts does anyone know the part numbers for the washers the rear engine mounts sit on, on TAV1 they would appear to be parts 46 and 47, the bolt, spacer and fancy washer are all there but the perishable parts are long gone, they must be made of the same material that the rear spring shackle sleeves and thrust washers are made of as they are long gone too, Bill.
Hi me again, is there a specific workshop type manual for the 250 engine, or GTE I have just had another trawl around Google and found nothing again, I like information and am pretty good at making up the odd special tool when they are not readily available, as for the remark about working on million dollar cars I guess I had not put up the photo of it being hauled to my place behind my old Volvo 240 estate, thanks again Bill.
Bill: You need to be on tomyang.net. This webste has a lot of 250 people who actually work on their cars. They have a lot of hard-earned knowledge. No 250 Shop Manual exists. The closest thing is the 275 Shop Manual, which is almost identical to a Lusso motor except for bore, valve sizes, etc. However, it is not very detailed. There are lots of sources for both parts and knowledge in the UK, especially GTO Engineering.
Hello Bill, To send a PM, you can go (in this instance) to Post #4, put your cursor on the user name "tongascrew" and click. You should see a drop down menu with options including 'send user a private message'. Best of luck and Cheers, Dave
I have a manual written by Angelo Wallace specifically for the Lusso, although it applies to any 250 engine in general. It's not an official manual. I recall speaking with Angelo about it when I ordered a copy. Angelo has since passed away, but his wife is still with us, and she has the copyright to to manual.
Is there a way to contact his wife? If you are in touch with her she can e-mail me at [email protected]. I would be interested is a copy of the Lusso manual. tongascrew
Hi All today I spent a while working on the 250 engine, its a bit of a Chinese puzzle to get to the ancillary drive bearings, it had not really fully appreciated the way the parts fit together, I made a tool to remove the oil gallery bolt that goes through the middle of the timing chest and it worked although I may try to get the proper thing to reassemble it, I am waiting to hear if Hill engineering do them. I have taken some pictures and will post some up once its apart and I have not wrecked anything!
