Boxer Pricing on the rise?

High tide raises all boats.

 

Watch for Dino's to tumble. That's my prediction. When they stall, the speculators will drop them like a stone. That will be bad for speculators and good for enthusiasts who would really like to own one. Right now there are 14 for sale in Hemmings -- far more than any other car type.

As of today, good injected boxers are about double TR's. That's about right unless people buy them just as investments. Carbed cars are more of course but rarer.

Will they go up? Who knows. But honestly... who cares? Are you buying it because you think it might go up in price or because you would love to own it?

IMO, unless a car has chrome bumpers, it's not considered a real classic, even if it's "Enzo era". We don't see any movement in 308's pricing either and they are the same period and even more "iconic". Dino's have not lifted 308's one cent.

Don't get me wrong... I think they are beautiful and I would like to own one. But, I wouldn't buy one on speculation that it will gain in value. By the time you pay for upkeep and repair, a lot of that money you thought you just made flew out the window.

Buy a boxer because you really want one. If it goes up in value, great. If it doesn't, you will be happy you owned a wonderful car.

 

Too good a car and last of the true coach built ferraris...they will be on the rise.

 

I think the Boxer is the single most underrated Ferrari out there. its time will come.

 

Or are other cars overrated?

Why is a Maserati Ghibli 4 times less expensive than a Daytona? I would argue the Ghibli is rarer and better looking. Yes, it has a V8 and not a V12 but really --- 4 times the value?

Look at current Countach value vs Boxer values. They are pretty close apples to apples. Is the Countach also underrated?

30K miles, asking $129K -- and awesome.
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I'm have been looking at buying a Boxer, may, may not happen. Have looked at many cars and there are many which need lots of work. So hear is my opinion, the only people who keep speaking of investment are the ones with ads and are selling. I don't speculate on cars and I do agree with the mayor regarding crome bumpers on ferraris being investment grade.

Know someone who buys blue chip cars only saw him at a concours last weekend and he had a pristine Gullwing, This person knows classic cars better than most people he sold his pristine Boxer (BBi) last year for $125K. Buying at 125 -150 today and hoping to get 300 in 6 years is not a great investment.

One owner spoke about how great a car it was until he sold and then said he was glad it was gone in a Mayor thread about "I'm done with ferrari". I don't contest the great car, but I don't believe they are slated to take off in value they have been up and down for many years, after the great hysteria of 1989. Am I biased as a buyer, you bet but I'm a buyer. Just as sellers are biased.

Asking prices are up and so are selling somewhat, but not as much as asking. So I ask myself if they are going to be the next great investment why are people selling. Yada, yada, yada is the answer.

Example: car was for sale seller/owner asking 120ish can't sell car for over a year, now asking is high 140s at dealer. Car won't sell anywhere near this price needs service and other things.

3 cars I know that have sold recently.

$145K John in Ca BB excellent car service done
Low $120K Frank Parkers Car - needs service had all tools, ect and luggage - missed it
$150K late 84 14K miles documented Concours BBi one owner has everything - missed it

 

I disagree, bottom numbers of very nice examples of 308/328 have come up very nicely.

 

Here is my assessment of the boxer market, having recently purchased FParker's BBi from Ferrari of Atlanta. I started looking for a Boxer about 2 years ago, and was keeping track of individual serial numbers and whether cars were actually selling or being passed from dealer to dealer, broker, etc. In the interim, I got sidetracked by a couple of other Ferrari purchases, but always kept following the boxer market. After getting back from my honeymoon last month, it was time to buy!

Well low and behold, all the cars that I was following a year ago were sold. This was surprising to me as these cars had sat at dealerships for what seemed like 6 months or more. At the time I bought my car, there were only about 5 or 6 cars that were for sale. I started calling on these cars, and the two on the east coast that I was interested in already had deposits - the other 3 or 4 cars were in California / Arizona /etc. and I do not like buying sight unseen. Fortunately for me the guy with the deposit on FParker's car couldn't complete the deal, so I immediately stepped up and got the car.

Point is, good cars are gathering a lot of interest and seem to be moving pretty quickly, especially if reasonably priced. Cars that sit tend to be owners that really do not need / want to sell and hence their asking prices reflect that.

If I had to ballpark where I think cars are actually selling now, I would say 120k to 160k for an injected car and carb cars are probably bringing another 20k over a comparable injected car.

Of course, the usual 10k major and when it was done factors in, but in my opinion Boxer pricing also has a couple of other factors that make some cars more desirable than others. Given that all cars legally in this country have been EPA /DOT certified, a car that still has the big bumpers , ugly side markers, and cats is less desirable. Fortunately my car had all of this junk taken off and is back to Euro spec. Also, complete history is a must on these cars as many of them lived in Europe for a while. For instance, if a car has a US 200mph odo, how do you know if the miles are correct as that is not the original speedo - when was the car brought into the country?

So in summary, forgetting about carb versus injected, the most desirable Boxer that should command a premium are cars that are back to original Euro spec and that were initially sold right to the USA from day one - hence you know the history from new. Even though FNA never officially imported the cars, many US dealers bought new cars directly from European dealers and immediately had the cars converted.

 

They still trade routinely at the 30- $35K range. A really nice one from an Fchatter just sold for just under 32K. I don't see that as any lift at all from Dino's ridiculous explosion in the last few years.

328's have lifted a little but not 308's while Dino's have gone through the roof. Dino's used to trade in the 60-70 range and now they go for over 250K on the bottom.

Chrome bumpers are the difference between the old world and the new world. As soon as bumper standards came into being, the line between modern and classic was drawn forever.

 

You own one and that's why you think it's "undervalued". I think the market is correct about the Boxer and that other cars are out of wack because people are buying them not as cars but they think they will make money off them. The "red mist" is very expensive.

As to the Daytona, I guess you missed the thread "the Daytona is not loved".

When you compare the Boxer to other similar car types of it's era, it's current price not out of whack. It's pretty close to what it should be.

Will Boxer's go up? Sure. Why not. As they get older they become more rare and more unusual from today's electronic nightmares. Good ones will rise and poor ones will fall as they become too expensive to invest in.

But will the Boxer be the next "Dino"? I highly doubt it and I actually hope it never happens. If it goes up to stupid prices, the real enthusiasts will sell their cars and cash out and others who would love to own one will never be able to afford one.

When it comes between speculators and auction houses making money off cars and supporting true enthusiasts, I support the enthusiasts.

If you want to make money, buy stocks and bonds. Leave people's dreams alone.

I also agree the best ones will be either those who never went through the US federalization process or have been brought back to Euro specs.

 

The overall issue with the 308 market is the variants ...the glass car is over six figures now as the most rare - as is the 365bb as the most rare in the model lineup...the bb has similar issues too many variants.

BUT !!!!

A nice bbi can be had still, as well as a nice Testarossa as far as Enzo era cars.

The issue isn't how high the boxer, Dino will go or fall , it's what can the mid market small car guy buy for 100-150k ..... When the Daytona , and now Dino become out of reach, the common practice has been the next model hits....lets see what the 308 and bb will do.

Personally, I agree with most of your thinking .... Buy what you love, because if you buy it for $$$ value or potential collector status, if the car doesn't hit ....it will be a hated quickly when you have to spend money on it to keep.

 

The Dino market will remain where it's at unless there is a overall problem causing the entire collector market to be negatively impacted. The Dino is one of the most beautiful road cars ever created. Those that put it down because they are under powered, etc... miss the allure of the car.
Daytonas are on a rise. Good driver quality cars are @ $500K+. The very best are $750K. My friend just sold his for $730K fast! It was one of the best never touched examples.
Boxers are definitely on a rise. An injected car recently sold at auction for $175K. Another one through a dealer in AZ for $189K. Both were top examples with low miles. 365 BB's @ $300K for good driver quality cars and $325 and up for better examples. I was involved in two recent sales so I can comment on the 365 market.
Compare the pricing from a year or two ago. Major difference. You can still buy a $100-$125K Boxers, but they will most likely be average quality cars. I believe if all stays as-is in the world, the US Gov stops fighting, the 512 BBs and BBis are $200-$275K as a spread in 24 months.

Geno

 

Since Dino's have entered the conversation, and since I believe that discussion is relevant to the Boxer I will offer my subjective opinion. For a long time a Dino was considered a Fiat, underpowered, and lacking the proper number of cylinders to be worth substantial value long term.

But what happened? The way I see it, those who owned and were devoted to the Dino for the best reasons to own a car (iconic Fioravante design, nimble, direct handling, and passion for all those and the rest of its substantial attributes) enjoyed them relatively inexpensively for decades. Then recently, that same passion infected a broader audience. Add to that that the newer, faster, quicker, more potent late models amplify to a discriminating driver that the driving experience of the Dino is in fact even more attractive as a result of the stark comparison. The laws of supply and demand did the rest.

For different reasons, I see the Boxer as having potential attributes that will gain broader appreciation over time. Those being exhilirating to drive (especially once mastered), incredible Fioravante design that gets better with age, hand hammered coachworks, unusual midengined, flat 12 cylinder offering. Lots of that sounds awfully familiar, hmmmm.

Time will tell the story. In the meantime, my hope is that those who have a particular passion for Boxers and are of more limited means as I am will have the opportunity to own one.

 

William,

I always agree with your posts/rationale. I also think geno is on to something.

glad we have owned our boxers before they became the "next" Ferrari

 

The problem is, if the cars become so valuable you stop driving it as has happened recently to many 330GTCs, Dinos, and I never see Daytonas on the road anymore.

For me, this is the shame of the cars becoming objects of investment not objects of desire/passion. There have always been collectors and concours people so I'm not counting those as cars which become non-driven.

Anyway, I probably have a bit of "Sour Grapes" in me as I want one. Oh well, we will see.

 

Have dino prices not come off significantly. Some seemed to be hitting over 400k now 250 seems to buy a decent one.

Lets look at the boxer and where it sits objectively. The criticisms are that ferrari at the time erred, it felll between two stools, being neitrher a Gt nor a hard edged car. Copled with this are the known deficiency of boxer tires, essentialy 60's tires on a mid engined car. Yes boxers are alo hot inside and require mauntanance. But none of these factors have held a miura back. Alsthough for many many many years a miura was an 85k car at best half the value of a Daytona.

Now lets look at the boxer potivives in light of todays world. It has a very cohesive and beautiful design, if not as stunning as a miura close. Look at Daytona or even a 275 they seem very primitive in comparison and not all of a piece. A Boxer has the beauty harmony of line thta all classic ferraris have, in a mid engined format.

What mid engine means in todays world is thata Boxer can be used on todays roads and run with moderns. Using acar on tadays roads means you are not crushing continents at 140+ where a daytono is in its element, it means coping with some sunday traffic and an ability to reward on winding roads. Here a boxer excells over classic ferraris, well maybe a 250 swb and a 288 gto are two others that are fun on bends too. The F40 is just too hard.

Think about it if you want to drive a classic ferrari, your choices are what 700k for a less useable daytona 1.5 million plus for a 288 F40 F50 1.5 million plus for a 250 series car.
Look whata boxer offers, all the grace,charisma,looks,drama of the earlier cars. An ability to be used, the stunning exotic ness of the special edition F series cars.

So if you have less than 500k to spend what are your choices, a Dino or a boxer.

The period faults of boxers are easily correctable with better rubber, and great pads.

Or compare a Boxer to the period extremem ferraris. Yes the boxer does not have the same performance as a F40. but its useable and has more go than can reasonably be deployed on the road, its not as rare as a 288 or quite as fast but its a 12 and arguably better looking. The Boxer was the ultimate Ferrai of its ra, superceded by the 288 and F40. All ferraris since have become softened and or design compromised for legilation and comfort.

What does owning a boxer mean. Well we know that it needs a 10+ k engine out every 5 or so years and it probably costs another 1k per year to run. Is that more or less than a 275 or a Daytona, probably not too much different. In any event for a 150k plus car its not too huge. For that you get a car that is the ultimate sunday drive machine, with classic ferrari looks and feel, but which wont get embarrased when running with new horsies.

One otehr overlooked attribute. Like an air cooled porche you have to know how to drive a boxer. Yes below 6/10ths a Boxer can be apain and not much fun. Between 6/10ths and 910ths a boxer is sublime and fully fully engaging. You exit the car having excecised your brain and body to maintain pace, tired and satisfied. No modern does that, a modern is easy below 6/10th and no fun till 10/10ths which is not really doavle on the street.

So if you want a classic ferrari, one for a great 1-2hr weekend drive. Something that looks stunning with aharmony of shape, something witht he charisma of an older ferrari, you can get a 250 swb a 275 4 cam a 288 or a boxer.

Now look at what a boxer currently costs and what it actualy is. Considder that all the great collectors have added a boxer. Once the clowns figure it out a Boxer is a 500k car.
Allt he dealers these dyas are bleating that the boxer is the next thing, so the moneyed collector class is moving in. Its perior drawbacks are actualy attributes for a modern collector.

 

Yes they are going to go up and I'm not simply wishing so because I own one. The chrome bumper line for collector/new world status has some merit but Ferrari has some fine collector cars without the chrome, read 288 GTO. For people that drive these cars, the Boxer is an amazing Ferrari. The induction sound and the way the car pulls from 3000-6000 RPMs in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear is epic. I have no use for people that let these cars sit, there is something terribly wrong & unprincipled about driving 100 miles a year and rubbing it with a cloth diaper on weekends. If all of the experts on this forum would only spend a long weekend with a Boxer. The Dino? Probably the last Ferrari where you can give it the business and not break too many laws in the process, which is a wonderful part of ownership. If anyone is on the fence about a Boxer you shouldn't. They aren't making anymore folks.

 

I like this write up....has merit, the Testarossa has much of this as well....the 512TR is where you see the refinement.

The old 12s are a bargain considering the options available.

 

So, the more important question is, what are you going to do if they become worth 300K+ at some point down the road? Still pile on the miles, sell or put it away. Just curious.

 

About a week after I sell mine prices will begin to spike.