McLaren Depreciation 12-C: a nightmare- werewolf?

Every informed road test notes that the ride/handling of the 12C in superior, it seems this something McLaren have done very well, if it lacks else where

 

I do agree with this. The 458 is a step back from the F430 in that respect. I do like the quicker steering but it didn't seem to be as interesting to me.

The F430 seemed more like a sportscar while the 458 coupe (and especially the 458 spider) seem more like GT's.

However, I did not care for the Mac's suspension at all. Yes, it corners great but I never had the sensation that I was really sitting in the car. It felt more like a video game -- too digital. There's a kind of disconnect between you and the road. It may be a superior method, but it wasn't what I would call emotionally stimulating.

 

To make matters worse a lot of it is pure bull****. I own both cars and I've driven them a LOT.

When I first flew up to Philly last summer to drive the 12C it was piss-pouring rain so I couldn't really get a feel for the car except find out it drives nicely in the rain. My thinking prior to heading up to Philly was that If I like it I might order the 12C Spider and keep the Italia to trade on the 458 Spider when my spot on the waiting list got resolved and I got my car. So I'd have a convertible supercar to drive as soon as possible and then figure out what to do when the 458 Spider was incoming. I realize now I wouldn't have ended up selling the 12C Spider when the Ferrari came because I love it so much. The bigger question is whether I would waited for the 458 Spider (which I'd likely just be getting now) or not now knowing what I know about the 12C Spider.

Here's what transpired...

I loved my Italia so much that I had already been asking my dealer about trying the FF. A few days after the McLaren trip I test drove the FF and fell in love with it. They offered me an earlier Spider allocation to close the deal so I bought the FF and didn't go back to drive the McLaren until just before I bought one this summer.

Even if I had gone back last summer and driven the 12C (the test car was a 2012 pre-upgrade coupe) I fear that I might have still waited for the 458 Spider because an hour drive in the 12C doesn't quite get rid of all the bull**** brainwashing (about how much better the Ferrari supposedly is) out of your head and you can't really get to know a car in a one hour test drive. All those nonsense reports (and talk about depreciation) make it a pretty gutsy decision to go against the grain and buy a McLaren. But I'm so glad that I did and I now I can see how wrong so many people are about this car.

It was really the P1, that rekindled my interest. This summer when I saw the P1 in person, and talked to the product manager about its specs and intentions, I knew I wanted it. So after making the decision to put a deposit down on the P1, knowing mine would be a year-plus away, I started thinking about the 12C again. I visited the McLaren factory and sat in the 12C Spider and I sat in it again at Goodwood. I really liked the fit and finish (better than Ferrari's) of the interior and something just made me really anxious to go drive it for real. I'd heard all the reasons for not getting one but I just couldn't help wanting to know more and buying the P1 made it feel somewhat like my duty to know the family more closely.

So I flew back to Philly with the joint goal of delivering the deposit check and driving (and possibly buying) the 12C. Once I drove it for a few hours I was totally hooked. Holy crap is it ever and exciting car to drive! It's most definitely faster than the Ferrari with acceleration than thrills and sometimes even scares you (in a good way) with razer-sharp handling that gives puts a smile on your face and a feeling of solidity like nothing else. Wow, I was hooked.

After owning one a few months, and comparing it to the Ferrari, I can now see clearly through all the crap and I feel like it is my duty to make sure people make properly informed decisions. The McLaren 12C a is wonderful car and every bit the match for the Ferrari 458. I love them both and I'm so glad things fell into place the way they did or I wouldn't have had the experience of knowing both cars.

Now I just need to figure out an extra garage slot for the P1 because I don't want to sell any of them (458 Spider, 12C Spider or FF)!

 

There is no "numb disconnected feel" in the 12C, that's completely false. I don't dispute that some reviewers have said this, I simply tell you, as someone who owns both cars, it it is simply not true. Also most of those reviews were probably pre-2013 cars. Like Ferrari, McLaren has made improvements to the ride and handling of the car over time. My 2013 Spider drives better than my 2010 Italia did. It feels more solid than the older car did even through its a convertible. My dealer said that is down to the various things Ferrari has improved since the initial models came to the USA.

BTW, the computers don't take over in the 12C any more than they take over in the 458. I've tracked both cars. I'm not Mario Andretti but I've pushed both cars certainly my limits and they both do pretty much the same thing to keep you safe and going in the direction you want them top. The McLaren, because it is faster, gets you to your limits sooner but it is equally as exciting to drive

It isn't funny, it's just plain wrong. The McLaren perfectly communicates what's happening with the road. It's the clear winner in the suspension department. In fact it communicates the road better than the Ferrari. What it doesn't do is get unsettled the Ferrari which requires you to make many corrective inputs when the road gets bumpy. They probably boosted the steering in the Ferrari because you need to play with it more than you do in the McLaren because of the less-capable suspension. But you do absolutely feel all the bumps in the McLaren. They just don't shake you as badly or cause the car to jump around as much as they do in the Ferrari. It's give you fantastic confidence in the car and let's you steer when you need to steer as opposed to steering because the car is getting moved around by road forces.

This is probably the thing that annoys me the most about your post because this is one of the best features of the 12C and you're buying in to some misguided idea that's it a weakness. UGH! I want to scream!!!

Sorry if I'm getting frustrated and being too long-winded again.

BTW, I do the same thing in the McLaren forum when people make false claims agains the Ferrari. I truly love both cars but let's not tell lies about their strengths and weaknesses to cheer on one over the other. Everyone is welcome to like one more than the other for whatever reason they want. But they should do so without spreading false claims about the brand they favor less.

 

"My car ist faster then your car" - "My Mac its faster then your Ferrari" (and the other way around) - OMG!!!
You will never drive the fastest car.
Such an absurd discussion…
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Its not a pissing contest, its a matter of clearing up statements that are just plain wrong. Mark is right.

 

You are right for many, there are others that turn every choice into the eternal my-tribe vs. your-tribe face off.

found these to save "those" folks some time...
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Here we go again.

People who own both cars feel the Mac is superior in many ways that Ferrari enthusiasts are not willing to concede. These are the same jerks who intimated that one could not opine about the relative mertis of two cars unless one owned (or drove) them both. So there it is. Deal with it.

 

Not the height of maturity ... is it?

 

There is one thing I know -

The 458 replacement will be an amazing car because McLaren raised the bar so we all benefit, both Ferrari owners and McLaren owners.

 

Agreed! I'm super excited about both brands.

 

Jeez "x Z8" did some of us touch a nerve? LOL!

Yes, for you x Z8, and for many others, if you can only afford one, buy the 458. You won't be disappointed. You will be delighted.

For those who can afford more than one, or those who can afford only one but who do lots of track days or even raced, you should have a look at the 12c. It will surprise you. Closest thing to a LMP car for the street (until the P1 comes out).


And, always, always trust what you read in print.

 

Xz8, you left out all the parts about the 12C's objectively better performance. Then again MT also put the Z06 around Laguna Seca faster than a 458 and we all know what a piece of crap the Z is.

 

Kudos x z8. I could own both but decided the 458 suited me much better than the Mac. I like the lines of the 458 and the way it drives much better than the Mac. I don't need to put 5000 miles on a car to decide whether or not I like it.

 

The designer of the 12C is Frank Stephenson

He may be known to you as he has done some other cars before the 12C

Ferrari 430
Ferrari 612
Maserati MC12
Fiat Nuova 500
BMW X5
Mini Cooper
Ford Escort RS Cosworth

While I think both the 458 and 12C are beautiful cars, I can assure you the 12C is not a copy or mix of a Ferrari and Lambo

If you have said Sailfish, as part of the design. you would have been right on the money.


"all result in it being the highest output normally aspirated engine on the planet at 125 hp/liter."

Not exactly correct.
Look at any Sportbike made in the last 10 years and all of them make much more HP per liter.
As an example a BMW S1000RR is one liter and makes well over 180 HP.

 

Why you so worried about depreciation? You don't own a 12C, and if you buy one of these cars with the issue of depreciation, maybe you might not be able to afford it. Let's see which car holds its value better in the next 5 years, the 12C Coupe which they made 512 for the USA or the 458 which they made how many thousands of?

It is the same lame argument when the FORD GT came out versus the 360, and look what a FORD GT is going for versus a 360.

As far as style, it is in the eye of the beholder, and regarding history, McLaren has a fine history in their own right.

 

It's not just the McLaren mythology that's unique, but there's a certain charm and allure about McLaren being the underdog when comparing it to Ferrari and producing less cars as a result.

I think with a bit more time it will resonate more with the populous, sure Ferrari is mainstream but the Woking boys are going about their business turning out exciting super cars with a point of difference.

Being fortunate enough to own a 458 it teaches you to respect what other big time brands can offer. I'm not too swayed by what other scribes say post test drives but more focussed on what I feel and the engagement is provides. As a young kid I lusted over owning a Ferrari, that was just the generation back then, McLaren came later so I missed out on the McLaren image of today.

Last Sunday, the Australian subsidiary of Ferrari and its Sydney dealer organised it's first " Cavallino Run" to commemorate 25 year since the passing of Enzo Ferrari. 25 late model Ferraris rocked the Southern Highlands in a display of supreme style, design and performance.

No doubt McLaren will have similar incentives to celebrate its 50 years and their great sportscars.

Everyone wins, it's all good.
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Depreciation clearly favors the 458. It also matters only when you DON'T want the car.

As for history and style, that's an interesting question. We all know Ferrari and McLaren have rich F1 histories, but really, F1 has limited relevance to the road cars mere mortals get to drive. Ferrari does not even use its longstanding carbon fiber F1 technology in any road cars except for overpriced cosmetic options to trim the car. McLaren uses a carbon fiber tub.

When we look at road car competition, during Bruce McLaren's lifetime, McLaren simply dominated the top of domestic sports car racing, the Canadian American Challenge, with Bruce himself driving better than Enzo ever did. As a racer myself I truly appreciate a marque inspired that way. Of course Ferrari was a force to be reckoned with at Le Mans, but after Ford kicked Ferrari's ass with the GT40 in 1966, Ferrari had not a single overall win.

In 1995 the McLaren F1 GTR won OVERALL, even though it was entered in the lesser GT1 class and based in part on the F1 Street car. It defeated all the faster prototype WSC cars.

As for road cars, McLaren made precious few, and as a result does not have anywhere near as many consumers to carry its torch. But there is one that is the highest performance road car of the 20th century. The F1. It was actually not that appreciated when new, and depreciated and did not even sell out when first offered. It has a stupid center seat with offset passengers to each side. It is a bit plain, with function clearly being paramount to form. But it is a quantum leap better in performance over all of the Ferrari supercars before and after, both in performance and resale value. Only the LaFa may out perform the now 20 year old F1. You could have a 288 GTO, F40 and Enzo and an F1 owner would not trade his one car for all 3 unless you brought millions of dollars to the deal. Don't get me wrong, I adore the F40 and both the performance and style immensely and the driving experience is unique with no power assist or driver aids and a Powertrain not unlike the MP4.

McLaren "style" has always been form follows function. I personally appreciate and respect that emphasis and confess it is a lens through which I see the cars. Ferrari is dramatic, unmistakably Italian but to me overpriced and underperforming by the objective numbers.

To me, the Ferrari value is akin to the value of Patek Phillipe, Armani, and the like. Stylish. Recognized as expensive. Very expensive. Sought after instinctively by those who achieve financial success. I am glad someone like justin Bieber appears to not have McLaren on his radar. Style indeed.

Frankly, the MP4 is a bit too much of the style trumping performance for it to be perfect and so I plan to park it for a while and get back into the beloved Z06 to rekindle that enjoyment and enjoy the rich feel and smell of cheap man-made materials.

But back to the topic, you can't go wrong with either car. You can only go a it more right for your personal preference.

 

Xz8, so by not answering my question is it safe to say you have no experience in the 12C and are only repeating what you read on the Internet?

Why do you places more faith in reviews by people who have next to no experience in the cars than in people who currently own both and have driven thousands of miles and many hours in all conditions.

These people work for a car magazines and drive the car for probably less than a day. The people you're talking with drive these cars for thousands of miles, doing everything from a drive-thru burger to a track day.

 

I'm not being argumentative but looking at the used car market, there's a lot of people who bought the 12c and gave it up in a year. That also makes the depreciation rate increase.

If there were just a few cars to pick from (as there are 458 spiders now), the prices stay high. Put more on the market and prices have to fall to increase the market base.

That being said, it looks like in the past several months the rate of 12c depreciation has slowed and maybe even stopped a bit. The freefall period, like we saw with Scuds in 2010, has stopped.

 

Who would you trust about a movie ? - 5 of your buddies... or Roger Ebert.