Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

do we need a new thread? or were you afraid that the question would get ignored in that thread titled 'LaF vs P1 vs 918' despite the Ring Time being center of discussion? yikes.

 

I'd buy a Ferrari supercar regardless of its Ring time. If I wanted a very fast Ring car, I'd build it myself, like Jim did. Lots of people building sub 7-sec Ring cars in their garages.

But I do admit mass production car Ring times are interesting because its very hard to have a fast time with all the government rules you must meet.

 

BTW, if Ferrari could push an old 599 around the Ring in less than 7 minutes, I think they could probably do it with anything newer if they wanted to. Their cars may not be as reliable as Porsche, but they're more advanced and more thrilling to drive.

 

Interest duly noted. Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!

 

more advanced? How so?

 

More advanced??? Really?

The way I see it is:
Porsche 918 = technical wonder done properly
McLaren P1 = pretty much uncompromising track rocket with some switches to enable it to be taken on the road
Ferrari LaStupidName = heck I don't know! a badge and awesome sound on a restyled Enzo. I'm sorry but I really can't get over how they appear stuck on the Enzo influenced styling train. Where is the fresh thinking? And my 2012 Mazda 6's nose is too long, you could not drive this Ferrari around Sydney. You would loose your steering with the car beached with its front wheels off the ground.

Pete

 

Well, compared to the other 2,... I would wager buyers of LaFerrari will be of more advanced age.

 

Please stop. You are embarassing yourself. You say you don't know about the Laferrari so why even try?

 

Bill

Lots of people?

In 2012 we were the only ones.

We did beat all of the McLarens and Ferrari's.

We also set the best finish ever for a Hybrid car including the previous year's attempt by the Porsche Factory.

Please do show us how it's done.

We'll be back in 2015 with a new car and look forward to any garage built cars and Factory teams that show up.

Our goals are modest.

First Overall and a NS Ring time of about 6:30.

GTE

Our new car is Alfa/Maserati based. Being in Europe you should stop by June 2015 to see how we do.

We'll get you into the Hot Pits and give you an espresso at 3am. Not something you'll soon forget

Cheers

 

Lee McKenzie "We said in Paris that the ultimate test of ability in a car is how quickly it can go around a track, and I suppose the benchmark for that would be the Nordschleife?"

Ron Dennis "Indeed this sort of tends to be... I would say in performance vehicle terms, this tends to be the benchmark..."

Werd

 

You may want to reconsider that.

I don't know of anyone--anyone in the world including Napolis--who has built a "sub 7-sec" Ring car in their garage.

In fact, I don't know of anyone who has built a sub 7 minute ring car in their garage. It is an amazing accomplishment to build a car that will even sniff at 7 minutes, and much harder to break that barrier.

 

I defend McLaren, generally.

After their hype, to refuse to release a time or a video is indefensible.

Something went wrong. There is no other way to spin it.

 

There truly is not. A total major fail.

IMHO all of these three would be better cars for the road without their hybrid systems.

At the 24 KERS gave us an advantage and enabled us to do well even with 50 less overall HP than the 11 cars that beat us but on the road there is no performance advantage at all and you can't recharge without using engine HP as there's not enough braking. The complexity and cost of these systems for a road car is silly.

 

Exactly as this is what I was meaning. Zero interest. The Bwah-ha-ha-ha is on you.

 

What are you stating La Ferrari's ring time is?

I saw testing but no attempt at a full hot lap.

Personally I don't see any official Ferrari time beyond their "Sub 7" Geneva placard claim.

While it's possible a owner will go for one at some point I don't see that happening for a long while.

 

Aside from this thread that has over 3600 posts...

You have a strange perception of reality. You may want to seek medical help.

 

You obviously missed the insult that was intended in his post.

He suggested that lots of people are building a sub 7 minute car "in their garage."

The suggestion that someone can bolt on a turbo and change an exhaust and maybe improve brakes in their garage is an insult to the time, money, testing, effort and technology that goes into a sub 7 minute car. It is an insult to those who are above 7 minutes, but are shooting for it.

In order to construct a car like this, it takes know-how. It takes discipline and it takes an intimate understanding of aerodynamics, horsepower, traction, downforce, etc.

It is not a simple exercise of making modifications in one's garage. And, despite what that post suggested, nobody has built a car like this in their garage. The mountain is too high to climb. It takes much, much more than -- as Jeff Spicoli would say -- some 'cool tools.'

 

But, Napolis, you did this in your garage, so any redneck with enough horsepower and a stack of duracells can pull it off, right?

(Sorry, I get mad when posters on this board ignore the dedication and commitment it takes to accomplish something such as this. And it is this same emotion when I show respect for backmarkers in Formula 1. Being on that kind of a stage is pretty special.)

As for your post, I agree that their hybrid systems are set up wrong. One would think that there are ways to recharge the batteries without sacrificing straight line speed. Perhaps that would add even more complexity to the mix but these companies have HUGE budgets and in McLaren's case, they have the advantage of years of Formula 1 technology.

In your new Alfa/Maserati, will you pursue the same philosophy in KERS as you have in the P4/5 C?


(PS for all who are offended. I was born in the south, so it is OK for me to say "redneck.")

 

Actually, I think it's within the realms of possibility that someone with enough skills can produce a sub 7 min car for the NRing in their shed. Look at Radicals for example...
What is much more difficult(or near impossible) is to produce such a car that works not only on the NRing but also as a daily driver, like the 918 is, and complies with all the regulations and safety tests.

 

I finded this on PH. True?

The EVO article, on their app contains an account of them joining the McLaren team at the Ring.

It concludes with this;

Goodwin does so for the remainder of the lap and as we peel back into the pit lane, I’m convinced, as is he, that the P1 isn’t just a seven-minute car but one that will go comfortably under that. We may never find out by how much, though. While McLaren will later confirm that the P1 did indeed beat its 7:00 target, it will reveal no more than that. However, if the stars aligned, and Goodwin kept his foot in, you can bet the lap made the Porsche 918’s mark of 6:57 seem a little pedestrian.

 

4 Sure.

No KERS on our next one. Smaller lighter simpler. Alfa 4C Carbon fiber Tub/Maserati TTV6. Our road version will be about 1000 KG with 650HP. Race version will race at 2950 LB and have about 600 HP in endurance tune. Race version will be a bit GT/LMP.

We may run a 2 car Team. TBD.

 

Kewl and your La Ferrari comments are from where?

 

Absolutely true. I suspect there are dozens of sub 7-min cars that people built for less than 100k. They just don't talk about them here. And I'm just talking a few laps. Not 24 hours.

 

Look up the N-Ring official times and you will not see a garage car with a sub-7 time.

I had a 1969 Camaro Z-28. I put a big cam in it, and fitted it with headers and a steel exhaust. Had a Holley carb in it. Traction bars on the rear with 60s on the rear and 70s on the front. Performance shocks and springs. Had a performance clutch in it. I could lift the front wheels off the ground a few inches.

No way that car would do 8 minutes on the ring.

 

Need lots of money to get an official time (do you see Jim's car listed?), and most of the garage people don't care about the Ring. The fact that a Radical could break 7 minutes should be enough proof that someone could easily do it for under $100K. For example, take the Viper ACR on that list and dump $100K into it. Lots of track cars out there can break 7 min at the Ring. Their owners just can't or don't care to go to the Ring. IMHO, it's pretty arrogant to think people can't do this for a modest budget.

I can tell you a GT-R, Corvette, or Viper could easily be well under 7 minutes, but these OEMs has nothing to gain to follow through on that project. The Ring is not something their buyers care about, especially when a non-production car did it. I proposed a modest project like this and the OEM was not interested... much more effective and safe ways to market the car.