Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

This isn't a very good argument to start. Let's face it, building 200mph supercars that can do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds and selling them to the general public has killed, and will kill plenty of folk. Try YouTube for some choice demonstrations. Why not ban them all because they are all able to be used irresponsibly. One could easily argue that putting a trained racing driver in one on a track they know well is substantially safer and therefore very responsible.

 

Curious that McLaren didn't figure this out before risking their test driver's life,... only after seeing his lap time...

 

Force? You don't know ten people that would pay Porsche for the privilege? You don't know ten people that would risk their lives in order to move the bar of their favorite field up a few microns?

That you can type out such soulless reductions doesn't mean they reflect reality.

 

+1

Well said.

 

Bill--

Gotta echo the general response to your statement here.

Appreciate your concern for the value of life in light of going fast, but the pervasive ethos understood between manufacturers and customers is that of speed for dollars. And when customers pay big bucks for incremental speed gains, they need big goals to justify those incremental gains.

Your garage is a testament to this. At the release of your Enzo, Ferrari marketed that car as the fastest ever around Fiorano. Speed (or the sudden stop, as Jeremy says) is just as deadly at Fiorano as it is at the 'Ring.

Face it: Ferrari have probably made more money from marketing Fiorano over the last 20 years than all car manufacturers combined have made from marketing the 'Ring.

 

No. I was totally wrong but at the time I believed what I said at the time I said it. On paper P1 should be very fast at The Ring. I should perhaps of seen that it's alleged 1300 lbs of downforce was very dependent on it's 2.7 in ride height and at the height required to run the Ring it must have way less. I also misread how quickly it would deplete it's topped up charge and need to use Petrol HP to recharge. (2X during a Ring Hot Lap according to some). I also was told things by sources at McLaren that I now doubt are true. The Ring is a Monster and I of all people should have realised what a Monster it is but I really thought that P1 would be near us as they told me it would be. This new note from EVO, if true in effect that they no longer want to go for or encourage other Manufactures to go for Hot Ring times because it endangers lives is pathetic beyond anything I have ever heard. Hope U come by in 2015 to see our new car at the 24.

Cheers

 

Please note McLaren haven't said they aren't releasing the time for safety reasons. Those are the opinions of the EVO editor, Nick Trott. The only two quotes from McLaren in regards to their decision are identified clearly in what he has written. Some of you may want to check it once more.

>8^)
ER

 

Being probably the biggest fan of Mclaren here I can say that I am very disappointed that they may not reveal a lap of the ring. It really is not necessary to be honest except to help other customer who have a hard time understanding what the focus of the P1 really is and why that is so kool. It would have been great to see because the car would look that much more impressive because that kind of time at the ring is very hard to achieve. Some race cars can't even do what this hypercar can do. I do believe that the ring time will be unnecessary if they are going to release time for this car on tracks that this car may actually find itself on some day. Paul Richards is a great example. If it demolishes those times then that is even better because the ring is an awesome track but if you can show that you can demolish race cars on more than one track then... Damn. That's just awesome. It will be even more awesome if Chris actually sets an amazing time at whatever track he will be showing the car off at. That would shut everyone up who thinks Mclaren will try the same thing as other manufacturers and try to "optimize" the car before doing a run. In two days time we will see. ...I hope lol.

 

If McLaren can't or won't publish a Ring time, I would suggest they show what it can do on some modern F1 tracks like Austin. And a short horsepower track like Laguna Seca.

Then we can at least benchmark what the P1 can do relative to a whole host of cars from F1 race cars, to LMP, to sports GT3, to road cars.

After all, why have all that performance technology if you can't objectively define what the performance can do?

For buyers who don't care about performance, well, you make your own decisions on why to buy. The manufacturers, however, do make claims of performance. So they should put up.

 

No. To run under 7 at The Ring you need to do a Ring Set Up and that's a big undertaking.

You need to test and you need drivers with Ring experience.

At the 24 about 1/3 of the cars entered can the rest can't so "pretty much any race car" even those that race there can't.

Of the cars that raced the 24 and ran below 7 VERY few can also do this.
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And what is wrong with this? Do you consider profit or money evil?

What is wrong with trying to make a profit from producing the absolutely best product available?

As Francisco d'Anconia has told us: " Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men’s stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best that your money can find. And when men live by trade–with reason, not force, as their final arbiter–it is the best product that wins, the best performance, the man of best judgment and highest ability–and the degree of a man’s productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider evil?"

 

I apologize in advance for what I know I will type.

I cannot fathom the mind of a man who would type this.

I actually typed a lot more than this, but decided to delete most of it. I cannot express my opinion on this subject without it being seen as a personal attack and I do not mean to do that. So, let me just say that I cannot understand your way of thinking, and leave it at that.

 

If Enzo hadn't have gone racing in 1947 and won a Grand Prix that people noticed and wanted to buy a car like "the one that won The Turin GP" as Enzo himself said when he reluctantly sold 002 he couldn't have kept his company alive. There would be no Ferrari today, as we know it. That is fact.

 

Who had said early on that the P1 was 6sec faster than a GT3 car on a certain F1 track? Was that a Mclaren claim?

 

I believe it was. It still could be true. F1 tracks are smooth and short so P1 and La Ferrari will both likely be very fast for one lap around them. Not sure if 918 would be as fast on an F1 Track but as it's Ring time demonstrated it's faster than a lot of us thought it would be.

 

That rumor was posted on the McLife forum and recounted by Jalopnik here:

The McLaren P1 Might Eat GT3 Race Cars For Lunch

Shouldn't be too surprising as the GT3 variant of the 12C is down over 100hp from the production versions. The P1 produces a similar level of downforce, gives up a bit of weight and wouldn't be on slicks, but has the benefit of an additional 400hp, instant torque from the hybrid drivetrain and the ability to reduce drag with DRS on the straights.

>8^)
ER

 

As an aside as we will testing at the Ring soon if any P1 or La Ferrari owner wants to go for a Ring Time we'll be happy to help you with logistics. Plan on spending a week going for it.

All in my guess is a serious run door to door (car in Europe) including a test driver should you want one would be about 100K euro.

 

I wonder where that car is now . . . .

 

That is what it cost me to run the 2009 Rolex 24 at Daytona! Minus car and equipment of course.....

 

Jim remember the 918 would now have more than 910hp plus 940+ pound feet of torque which is significantly more than Lafa and P1, plus 4wd, 4ws, torque vectoring etc, and I'm sure generates substantial downforce as well with all it's aero. All these makes up for the difference in weight. I'm really finding it hard to believe P1 would really be faster than 918 in general... I don't know, maybe there's something I'm missing.... someone pls educate me

 

No problem, just my personal opinion (BTW, I strive to be the best in everything I do). I'm just too close to the automotive marketing departments. It's sometimes hard to understand their thinking as car enthusiasts. I used to think like you on this subject, but I've been forced to change my thinking (and really just for this one subject of using Ring times to market a street car). I see Ring times going away for marketing street cars and OEMs going back to the way they've sold cars for years... post the basic specs and let the car magazines and owners take it from there.

 

Bill,... I find that interesting.

As a complete outsider,... I think if I were in charge of a car company,... I would want to control as much as possible about the test. That would mean running it myself.

No one is going to put the effort in to get the best number, but the mfg. Optimum weather,... tires,... driver,...track temp. That takes time,... money and patience to get the best number. You are going to trust someone else to do that? Or you're going to leave it to luck?

I wouldn't want my car tested by R&T with driver X on a damp day in february compared to C&D with driver Y on a overcast day in march.

Also, a magazine has so much conflict of interest in its advertising dollars and it reader subscriptions... You are going to trust that they will be completely fair?

If you were in charge of Porsche. You would let R&T run your performance tests? Really?

 

We'd still run our factory tests. Just not on a dangerous track.

Warning

Not sure if there ever was a death at Ferrari's test track.

Don't forget Jay Leno nearly got killed is a marketing event for the CGT. Not sure where Porsche is going with all this. McLaren apparently is wising up and Ferrari never played this game.

 

For me, here's the rub. Big Mac talked A LOT of talk...defined themselves largely on NUMBERS. Now shuts up. Hush hush. Ring time doesn't matter...really? Porsche has walked the walk for them. Took their lunch and ate it, then slapped them upside the head. The sandbox is unforgiving these days.

 

But aren't most of those race cars restricted by the class rules that limit their abilities?

Sure, you need a driver capable of it, but I feel like there are tons of race cars that could easily do it in the hands of some capable if not subject to rules that force them down on power, or up in weight, or no this, and no that.