Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Porsche turn up to the ring with their hypercar and set a blistering pace.

Mclaren turn up with their P1 and limp home with their tail between their legs and a code of silence.

They've all turned up the the ring to test. Put up or shut up time.

Ferrari's turn...

 

mclaren has a time and will release it at the appropriate moment. All this will make sense eventually.

 

I hope you're right Mike, perhaps you can give them your Hill Climb time at some point. You know the record is 'only' an average of 101mph on street tires .

 

If you're talking about AR's time, that was on slicks. But the P1 should be able to beat that with the kers setup. Now we just need a decent driver.

 

If you are shooting the messenger, Ring times have never mattered to me - YMMV.

The time the 918 achieved is impressive - they deserve kudos for finding every ounce of performance they could from what many believed was going to be an underpowered and overweight car based on initial specs. They have obviously been working very hard to improve it.

I do find it comical that McLaren's reluctance to share the numerical results of their time spent testing at the Ring leads those who regularly have the least to say about them to automatically conclude failure, really I do. No one really knows what McLaren have in hand so I wouldn't go betting on that if I were you.

If McLaren had shared the digits I am sure I would have been impressed but it wouldn't have dramatically changed my opinion of a car I already believe will be fantastic. If they had failed to reach their target I would have been more shocked than disappointed. The Ring is not a track highly suited to the P1 but it should still go very well there - at least as quick as the 918 which is what they have effectively stated. Feel free to split hairs over 2 seconds if that's what you believe.

>8^)
ER

 

Porsche needed to post a good time (and soon) to sell 918 cars. McLaren and Ferrari do not. Their cars are sold out and their times are for other reasons.

 

Hey does anyone remember what the ring time was for the F40 back in 1987? Didn't think so.

 

Simon, your car is ready. We think showing a time slightly under 7 minutes would seem believable and might help us sell more cars. Your car has the special tires with the tweaked engine and suspension we talked about. But you need to go all out at 10/10. Sorry we can't give you a cage. That would show up in the video and people would question the time. Please sign this waiver and don't crash my car! BTW, don't worry if you come in a little above 7 minutes. We can edit the video to correct for that.

 

This sums it up perfectly.

McLaren probably wanted to replicate the 1990's F1 240-mph Ehra Liessen media windfall. Over the years, McLaren milked that record for all its worth (and why not? - it was a tremendous feat for its time) and the F1's reputation was largely built on that speed record.

A sufficiently fast record run at the Ring by the P1 (say 6:33) would achieve a similar if not greater windfall, potentially establishing McLaren as THE supercar maker. I believe McLaren aimed to destroy, not just beat, the competition as the F1 did - top speed wise (back then top speed was the thing). Merely matching the 918's Ring time is not what they were expecting for sure but getting beaten by the 918 must have come as a big shock.

I hope McLaren decides to build the P1's reputation by owning up to the Ring shortcoming then attempting record laps on Formula 1 tracks where the P1's supposed superior down force can be made to work.

 

You seem to be a poor student of history. That record, which does still stand to this day for a normally aspirated production car, is but one facet the F1s reputation is built on. McLaren waited until the last car was sold and nearly delivered to even make the top speed attempt at Ehra Lessien and all of that activity came three years after the car had won Le Mans outright. Unlike the Bugatti Veyron and others that have followed, the F1 was not developed with a top speed record in mind - the result in Germany was simply the byproduct of great design and engineering. Long before they had secured the top speed figure the car had already been heralded by just about every journalist who could get their hands on one, except Jeremy Clarkson.

It could be argued just as easily (and I will) that McLaren are choosing to avoid being drug into a potentially unwinnable PR battle by stating their Ring result now. What would be in it for them to release their 6:47 (or better ) time now, with Porsche already suggesting they will go again with an improved 918, and Ferrari yet to make any serious effort. McLaren might be a lot more confident in this situation than you think.

There is also that Ferrari wildcard where they can say whatever they wish people to believe and most will eat it up. We have already seen evidence of that with their dry weight and acceleration claims for LaFerrari from Geneva which are being parroted by every media outlet on the planet as if they are already proven facts. Ferrari were not even close to production at that point - failed crash tests, battery meltdowns and other issues standing in their way which could all have an effect on reality.

>8^)
ER

 

I agree and will throw in my $.02.

Porsche throws an early right hook, Mclaren hits back with a jab and then Porsche comes in with an uppercut for the kill. Mclaren just does not have the resources to go back and forth with Porsche at this level. Add to that the Formula 1 team which is in the toilet and consumer confidence in the MP4-12C waning, and I think they made a good business decision by not releasing the time. They'll have to eat it for the time being, but everyone will eventually forget and move on or some other virtue of the P1 will be parroted to take everyone's mind off the lack of ring time.

It would not surprise me if Mclaren "suggested" to Trott et al. to put some spin on it with the holier-than-thou op ed. IMHO EVO's integrity comes out looking the worst in this, as they appear to be toeing some line for Mclaren (as we can see in this and other threads where people are mistaking Trott's comments for the official explanation from Woking).

Regardless, I'm sure the car's awesome to drive (as is the 918 and LaFerrari) and the new owners aren't losing sleep over it.

 

I don't think he said the record was an F1 selling point, but anyways.

The difference is you talk like a car enthusiast, which sadly is the minority, and not like a regular person. A regular person doesn't know the facts you know, a regular person knows that the F1 was for many years the fastest car in the world, and that shows you the importance of numbers.

I was a teenager when the F1 set the record, starting to get into cars more than the average boy my age would. The F1 was the favorite car among my friends "cause it was the fastest car in the world". Today it's the same thing, that's the kind of PR you want, numbers are important, real car enthusiasts are scarce.

I know you're a great F1 fan and historian, and I don't think your as biased, but if the F1 had been "heralded by just about every journalist who could get their hands on one, except Jeremy Clarkson" I think they would have sold their whole projected production.

 

For sure you are the F1 expert but you can't deny that the Ehra Liessen run is the major factor for the F1's enduring reputation. Doesn't matter if the record came before, during or after the production run (which I recall ended prematurely due to lack of buyers). People remember the F1 as being the fastest car of its time BY FAR. Which brings me back to my point - McLaren knows the value of such stunts (Ehra Liessen with the F1) and may have desired to replicate the same positive media windfall for the P1 via an overwhelming Ring record.

The street F1 is heralded for its straight line speed. The GTR that won Le Mans didn't have poor handling and wooden brakes.

 

Yeah, the F1's sales success (or lack thereof) had nothing to do with trying to sell the world's most expensive car in the midst of a recession, having no access to the US market where today McLaren sell ~40% of their production volume and that the car lacked the level of driver's aids that most people who could afford it needed to keep the car on the road. These are all things that can not be overcome by great press.

Add to that the fact that McLaren's Formula One technical partner and eventual major stakeholder, Mercedes Benz, was unsupportive of the fact that McLaren's supercar was powered by their primary rival. Some say that MBZ's agreement to acquire their stake in McLaren was contingent on them no longer producing the F1.

It wasn't until a few years after the US market was opened up to the F1 that prices really began to climb. Credit that to the collectors who realized we won't soon see another car built in the same fashion as the F1, not simply because of an afternoon around Ehra Lessien. If people just want to go fast in a straight line there are other options of course.

...and now we are way off topic.

>8^)
ER

 

Why are all McLaren fanboys talking that LaFerrari failed crash test? It was just a rumour, how can you know its true? I love both P1 and LaFerrari for some particular details that one has over the other.Just for record so you know I dont hate P1 or McLaren I love them actually but some criticism like this on LaFerrari is not fair, saying it failed crash tests like its fact and its only a rumour...

 

It isn't a rumor. Michael ( aka: toolfan ) who is most definitely not a McLaren fanboy will now tell you the same story, confirmed via a Ferrari engineer and Marcel Massini.

>8^)
ER

 

Sorry then! My bad I thought its a rumour

 

So what? Many F1 cars don't pass their crash tests at the first attempt either. No big deal.

 

I was told it failed on pedestrian impact not occupant safety . Can anyone confirm or deny this ?

 

The only quibbles seemed to be, at the time, it was just too expensive and too over the top. Here's the intro to Car Magazines review from '94:

McLaren F1 review (CAR Magazine, June 1994: Into Orbit) | Road Testing Reviews | Car Magazine Online
20 years ago was a much different place.

 

Press conference today right? Driver for McLaren is speaking right?

McLaren have a chance to change all of this.

Would love to see them up the game by a tremendous margin. Here's to hoping.

 

They did not announce a time. Very odd. We know the p1 is fast, but the pr return of holding the record is invaluable. Would have helped not only current sales, but also future values, and McLaren's reputation.
Really have no idea why they spent so much time at the ring and didn't announce anything.
Last time they were there for 6 days.....
Kevin

 

New video of Lafa at the ring


Ferrari LaFerrari Spy Video on Vimeo

 

Pedestrian should be honored to be crashed on by a LaF.

 

That looks a lot faster than the previous video's.