What is the worst car Vettel can still win the WDC with?

Webber's inability to start a GP has taken him out of contention in several races this year. Even with a good quali lap (Japan, Abu Dhabi), you can't exploit the Red Bull's strengths (its speed in clean air) if you get mired behind a bunch of cars at the start of almost every race.

Red Bull has always won with that "get out front and stay there" strategy. In traffic, they are pedestrian - (low top speed, etc.) It's how they're always set up. High downforce, low top speed, win pole and stay there. Vettel rarely makes a bad start.

 

What could Vettel do with the F138 or W04? I would be surprised to see him equal the results of Alonso and Hamilton.


On the other hand, I think any rookie from this year could have driven the RB9 and won races had it been designed around them as RedBull has done for Vettel. A championship is another story because the cocky attitude and selfishness that Vettel's possesses took a few years to develop.

 

Who cares and what's the point?

 

My assumption is that the Red Bull is out. We are left with the remaining cars and the remaining drivers. In that case, I think Kid Index can win the title. It would be much closer, however.

 

That was evident in India. 17th to 3rd in a handful of laps.... Meh pedestrian.

In Spa and Monza, I think they also had one of the highest speeds on the straights. Maybe you're thinking of the 11-12 cars and getting confused with their current set ups. The racing I've watched doesn't fit with this description.

 

Indian Grand Prix DRS zone extended again - F1 Fanatic

Long DRS zones and 2 DRS zones. Lots of cars were pitting in front of him to come off their tires as well and he made up lots of spots that way. Watch the race again.

At Monza they were 14th and 15th in the speed traps:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/299971/monza-speed-trap-topped-by-ricciardo/

Spa was wet in quali and the Red Bull can run less wing than everyone else since the RB9 makes so much DF and that would explain why they were towards the top of the speed traps.

 

Worst car ?
How bout a Red Bull.
Any other top teir driven in that seat would win instead.

 

Good timing on this Ross Brawn article from today.

""They suddenly have the car that sometimes tops the speed trap times, and they have never done that in years.

"They have managed to shed some drag off the car, so some of the car's performance in certain areas of the track, if carried over in to next year, will make it very challenging."

I'm sure his data isn't as accurate as your app.

 

Look at the data for the whole year, not just the last few races. It's been Red Bull's M.O. for years, still is. Hence his words "suddenly" and and still only "sometimes" at the top of the charts. They may have gotten better than they used to be, but they are still slow in a straight line. At Abu Dhabi during the race, Webber was 13th in the speed trap and Vettel was dead last. But you know what you're talking about right?

Listen Mr. 29 posts, we could do without your little quips, especially when you're wrong. Now run along, big boys are talking.

 

Sooo, if Alonso made his first post on here about F1....rofl.

 

Alonso would know what he's talking about

 

I averaged up Vettel's speed trap position in qualifying from every race this year. The result?

15.05

Way down the list. Only recently has it gotten slightly better with 12th, 9th, 9th, 18th in the last 4 GPs. It's clear that Red Bull's strategy is to get him pole and get him out front in clean air. The car isn't set up for straight line speed, that is simply a fact. If you want to say otherwise, back it up with some numbers to support your position.

 

You consider yourself a big boy because you have 5,000 posts on an internet forum? I am certainly impressed. Do you tell your wife your post count before bed each night? Since you lost all credibility as a mature adult with that comment I am not sure what else needs to be said.....

 

Convenient red herring when your feeble argument got destroyed....

For what it's worth, I've been a member here for 6 years, comes out to about 2.5 posts per day.

My point stands, have a little respect especially when you have so much to learn.

 

DJ, you are pretty arrogant and its rather annoying. I say that with little regard to your tenure (and my lack of) on Ferrari Chat F1 Forum or anywhere else. I would never consider myself a big boy based on forum posts even if you want to back track and humble yourself with your 2.5 posts per day stats. I am sure one could compare many aspects of their life to see what achievements they have under their belt but forum posts is a rather embarrassing metric.

I will step back on that one since the stats show that Vettel is not as I said 'top in the speed traps' however it is possible to argue the increase in their top speeds vs previous years set ups. Clearly other teams have seen this too and their knowledge trumps mine but probably not your post count.

For example from qualifying

Monza 2012 top speed was Raikonnen at 342 Vettel was 22nd at 333

Monza 2013 top speed was Ricardo at 340 and Vettel was 15th at 336.



India 2012 top speed was Vergne 323 and Vettel was 23rd at 311

India 2013 top speed was Hulkenberg at 321 and Vettel was 9th at 316



Abu Dhabi 2012 top speed was Maldonado at 326 and Vettel 23rd at 311

Abu Dhabi 2013 top speed was Massa at 319 and Vettel 18th still at 311

The examples do not have Vettel at the top of the traps as you say but it clearly shows a vast improvement in his speeds vs the rest of the field.

 

You're the one that showed up with the sarcastic comments directed at me out of the blue like:

All you did was cherry pick a couple races to try and prove your point while I looked at their speed trap numbers over the entirety of 2013. Fact is, Vettel has been 18th or slower in the traps at 10 out of 17 races so far this year. The car is never set up for straight line speed. They have a specific plan for winning races and that revolves around getting Vettel in clean air.

But we're both off topic anyway at this point.

 

I dont think vettel would win in an car besides the red bull. Its clearly the fastest car. So many front row lockouts this year.

 

You are right, I was sarcastic towards you as I had an opinion of you before posting based on other threads. Sorry for that.

I just picked the first 3 races randomly jumped on. I dont have time for going through years of data to carry on an internet argument with a big boy like yourself so I will kindly say I am sorry to those that had to read this and move along ;-)

 

No prob

No prob, took like 5 mins and a little math as I was kinda curious myself

 

Well, it's not Webber's car for sure because it always breaks!

 

True but you'd think at some point he would have learned how to effectively start a gp. He appears to be waiting for a green light.

 

lol, there are only a couple of people saying he is good .

 

Not without replacing the tactician. If Alonso couldn't, why would Vettel?

Vettel is no faster than Alonso, LH, MS, Rosberg and Kimi. Any of those would have won in the RB too. Even a Webber, if he could get off the line (ie. RB stopped ****ing his car somehow so Vettel wins. I can't believe any human being is this consistently useless at starts unless they fiddle).
Pete

 

I do think Vettel is an extrordinary talent, in a car tailored to him with the best car designer in the world.

With that said, there are several drivers (Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Kimi, maybe Rosberg) that would be title favorites if they had the Red Bull and Newey exclusively working for them.

But I guess the question is where could Vettel go and still be a legitimate title contender. To me that is either Ferrari or Mercedes at the moment, assuming McLaren continues their (poor) form. But plop young Seb in a Ferrari without the support system he has now at Red Bull and he would not likely be world champ, not against an equal teammate like Alonso or Lewis but even less so if Lewis or Alonso were themselves in the Red Bull receiving the benefit of Newey's genius.

The kid has never had a teammate close to his equal, Webber is one of my favorites but let's face facts: the guy has achieved little outside of the Red Bull in F1 and will be forgotten soon after he leaves the series. Vettel's one improbable win at Toro Rosso in the pouring rain aside, likewise Seb's career has always been in the very best car on the grid.

Perhaps a better question would be: could Vettel win without Newey?