Rubbish paint again

Yes, this is the position I would take.

There is a question that others have raised of how much clear coat they will need to take off. You might want to try to get a before/after thickness measurement of the affected areas. If they take off a fair fraction of the starting thickness, you might request that they apply one of the new high tech tough permanent coatings like Opticoat.

I guess my point is to have some communication/influence over the project, if not quite like the F40LM, at least more than: They take it, work on it, and then say "Here it is."

 

Traveller:

Based on the pictures, that was a particularly bad orange peel issue. Were you able to feel irregularity on the surface, or just see it?

My Silverstone 458 was detailed by the dealer before I ever saw it. I wonder what it looked like before the detailing job?

 

I notice an insane amount of orange peel on the new cars at Ferrari Dealerships.

It's sad that such a brand has those issues.

It's sad that a car that expensive is delivered with those issues.

It's sad that people still buy them. If everyone stopped until they made them right, you'd see a difference.

 

The problem is that I think people of today think that is what paint looks like. They do not know what orange peal is. So when they buy a new car such as a Ferrari they think the paint is beautiful and have no idea the problems with the paint that you or I may see. I personally do not expect the paint to be perfect, but I do expect it to look better than average.

 

If I had money enough, I'll order my Ferrari's in bare metal and will have them painted in my own shop with the most skilled painters. I'll also have an upholstery shop and a carbon fiber atelier.

Gimme da Engine and da chassis.

For the rest I got my men.

 

Im no expert but it seems to me to "reapply" the clear coat, you'd have to strip off the clear coat and not touch the paint. I've never heard of this before. I suppose it could be possible. The way this plays out in my imagination is they will simply perform "paint correction" as has been mentioned elsewhere where they cut down the clear coat. In essence your clear coat has these peaks and valleys in it, which is what you are seeing, and thats due to the uneven application of the paint underneath the clear coat. The clear coat just sits on top of this. The way to make it look smooth is to literally just remove the peaks so you are left even with the valleys. Thats fine but you will have less clear coat on your car and thus less room for further correction of things like scratches. This is how a good detailer would resolve the issue. If I am correct then this really doesn't solve the underlying "rubbish paint" issue- but it will look good and is probably the least invasive option to the vehicle.

 

They could sand the clear coat all the way through and even out the paint and then re clear the entire car.

 

Good news. Should be fine.

 

If thats the case then its good news. However I cannot prevent my skeptical feelings that this will result in more unhappiness. If it were me they would have to convince me. Right now I'm not convinced.

 

Well it has to do with the skill of the guy. I mean then you leveling paint and if they don't do it right they have to essentially repaint the entire car. Once they scrape maybe .1mm of the paint to get rid of the orange peel then they can clear coat it with extra clear coat layers. Then they have to make that clear coat flat. So if they put say 9-12 layers that is fine because probably 3 of it will come off during the sanding and buffing process to get it flat. That way you still have a thick clear coat for future buffing and don't have to worry about your detail guy going into the paint.

As oppose to say a corvette with 3 layers of clear and when you make it flat you lose pretty much all 3 and can never buff the car again with an orbital.

 

Suspect they will do the complete car? I would speak directly with the owner and tech in body shop that will doing the work and get your own comfort feeling. I have wet sanded my V12V because of orange peel, but found it very difficult to know when to stop before touching the base coat. Especially around the edges that have less clear and paint than than the flat surfaces. The other lesson I learned, clear coat can have different shades when reapplied. You want them do one panel and see how it looks. Let them take photos of the process so you have records. Then measure what the thickness of paint and clear is compared to original factory paint. If you do clear film part of the car, it will soften the orange peel look. Or again, can try a section and see, if you were ever planning to use clear film.

I wish you success, as it is frustrating and time consuming. Good luck.

 

I second this, esp. making contact with the shop doing the work. And yes, it is a good idea to take a detailer with you. And he can do thickness measurements on the site.

 

It is from the process. Air pressure and spray equipment all cause orange peal. Clear coat is usually applied with turbo bells which spin at very high speed to break up the paint.

 

The proper procedure is to use a mill gauge to check film thickness at several points on the surface, noteing the measurements with a small piece of masking tape applied near where the reading was taken. After sanding to remove orange peal, you re check the thickness and subtract the difference. If too much clear coat is removed, the car should be re clear coated. If too much clear is removed, the remaining film will not have enough UV protection and the base coat color will break down causing the adhesion of the clear to go away and the clear will peal, or caulk and fail.

 

Don't they have to "tear the car down" before they sand or paint clear again. If they don't, then you're really not getting a "re-sprayed" car. If they do, then you need to worry about fit and finish on any attachment removed an re-installed. Is this a dilemma or not?

 

Gerald// This is very educational and interesting. The question then is how does something as bad as Traveler's panel get past the DOI test (and in other cases like it)? Is it:
-- human error/carelessness in applying/evaluating the test
-- the DOI test is inadequate
-- something happens after the DOI test

 

There are gauges that measure total thickness of clear coat and paint combined and more expensive gauges that measure clear coat as one measurement and paint as another measurement. If they are satisfied with the paint thickness, I would suspect they have average paint depth measurements to calculate the difference. This is critical in figuring out how much sanding is required to get to the problem. It should be a good result if they are confident in the specific readings.

 

Don't know about a mil gauge that can only read clear or base coat. The instruments we use measure the total thickness of entire paint film. OEM finishes are between 4 to 5 mils total. 2 for clear 1.5 to 2 for base coat and 1/2 to 1 for E Coat.

 

Usually that evaluation of the DOI of the finish is done when the paint line is set up. DOI Measurement is industry standard for appearance. Vehicle manufacturers have different standards and acceptable variances in painting, including color variance.
The best thing they could do would be ultra fine sand and polish to remove what customer feels is excessive orange peal.
I am sure PPG Representatives have set everything to Ferrari's standards.

 

Gardco :: Distinctness of Image Meter

 

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