Alfa 4C - "Without The Heart We Would Be Mere Machines"

Actualy the true manuals always weigh less than a DCT. Just look at porche.
If there is a manual box that goes with the same donor car its a very simple swap.

Whether Alafa wants to compete witht he cayman or not, this will be the comparsion for many shoppers who are not sportscar addicts, and even a lot of addicts are going to do the comparison./

Fir 60k there are lots of choices int he USa and thr 4c is going to have to really shine above those in some area. As the spec sits now I dont see it. At 350 hp its not even a debate.

 

not quite, as then the gear change linkage has to be designed ... which is why John Barnard started this whole paddle shifter bollocks in the first place when he was the Ferrari F1 designer, so this linkage did not have to be designed in as an after thought, with him designing the chassis in England and engine and gearbox being designed in Italy.
Pete

 

The paddleshift on a 911 adds 30Kgs. You need hydraulics to run it and the gear box is heavier to start. The reason for PDK is quick shifts. Figure how long it takes to shift manualy, on most trackdays I do maybe 5 shifts per lap, Even 1/4 second per shift saved adds up significantly. Plus there is practicaly no interuption of power. Like slicks a PDK should reduce seconds per lap even on a short track. Its just not a whole lot of fun driving on roads at 7/10ths and its ability to add speed comes at a price of blandness to the experience.

An older stick car is a fully immersive experience, a pdk is a faster more conveniant experience.

 

I thought we were discussing the Alfa and then the number 12,578th thread about paddle shifters vs manuals broke out.

 

+1

Let's start this debate again here....as if we didn't discuss it enough in most other threads already

 

It's ok I understand you don't like it... Very obviously you prefer more "raw" machines and that's totally fine. It seems looking at the market that the majority prefer a fun car but with some comfort as well.

 

Well said.
I completely understand what you are saying. The weight and the power are are simply not too impressive when compared to the Lotus. It seems the 4C is placing itself between the Lotus and the Cayman in terms of rawness and performance.
Regarding manual vs paddle shifter, it is unfortunate that stick is "last of the Mohicans." But look at Lotus - all Elise's and Exiges were stick and now Evoras are going IPS - of which more sales are with the IPS.
The 4C is more in the same category as an Evora which was made to compete with a Cayman as well. But look at the Evora sales - lacking. So not sure how the 4C will fare.

Wish it were manual as well...there's something oh so thrilling about "heel/toe."

How about buy the Alfa and time for a K20 swap

 

For what it's worth, the gang at evo weren't enthralled by the 4C during their car of the year test (eCotY). (They weren't crazy about the engine and didn't like the variable weighting of the unassisted steering (the car is mentioned in both segments)):

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/general-automotive-discussion/427882-ecoty-2013-video-%7E29-minutes.html

 

To be fair the 4C Corse? when it comes out later would be the car to test against this kind of competition. Everything on this list costs well over twice as much and is more refined and is basically an evolution of a previous design. This is the first 4C starting from a blank sheet of paper. When they come out with the 4C Corse or Evo or whatever is next and it still does not stand up well then Alfa might have questions to answer. Then again you get what you pay for and the Alfa is very strong in its price category.

 

The criticisms didn't seem to be relative to the super cars on the list. They were more standalone.

Plus, evo have a long history of finding that everyman's car that gives the super cars fits under many circumstances, and tossing it into the contest. (I'm a bit disappointed that the Fiesta ST Mountune didn't seem to do well.)

 

That's true...Plus the Mini Evo was on the list. But that is so ugly it's hard to look at.

 

Contrast this to this month's Car and Driver review. They loved the car...

SV

 

Car and Driver find praise for pretty much every performance car thye test.

The Alka is intriguing, just not fully there yet. Its got ot be a knockout and besides looks and Cf tub its not.

 

Ok. And Chris Harris' review?

SV

 

Why does it have to be a knockout?
And various reviews believe it is.....but you are obviously right as you have driven it a lot already

 

I think it has to be a knock out because the 981 platform is so complete, so compelling. So are some of the used cars one could buy for that money.

2200lbs, a little more than my '91 CRX, means nothing if the car doesn't exploit it at maximum (better to charge another $5-10K if you have to than let this image maker lack in any way.)

 

What really bothers me in that EVO video is how ugly the 4C face is in the eye of the camera.

 

One of the mags put curb weight for US car at 2650. If that is true it's a non starter to me. My '05 Elise came in at about 1940. 700 lbs is big jump and puts it in the same ballpark at BRZ/FRS and MX5 if true.

 

Supposed to be 200 more than the Euro version with AC. AC is optional in the Euro model to get under 2000.

 

Alfa also quotes dry weight, that is a somewhat irrelevant figure taken with no fluids at all in the car, like no coolant oil, tranny oil etc. Maybe no battery either.

My Lotus is 1920 with 1/2 a tank of gas. Big Big difference.


I think the Alfa shows tremendous promise. Maybe in time there will be enough out there so that the aftermarket can develop the bits to make it great.

According to C&D The motor and tranny is similar to the one in the dart, in which case a stick should be pretty easy as its offered already.

As to weight C&D is talking 2650 which sounds like a lot. If Euro car is 2200 with fluids, then add AC, crash beams bumper reinforcement, a bunch of aibags and I can see weight getting closeon 2500 lbs wet.

If you look at the evo ecoty video there is a lot of criticism of this car, and evo is a mag that should love this type of machine.

It seems to have the potential, but not quite there.

Interestingly The KTM crosbow another CF minimlist vehicle also always had the rap of not being quite there compared to say a lotus 211. But in the KTm case thatmay be mostly due tot he turbo audi motor. Hmm similarities abound.

 

I could maybe see interest in usa for alfa since no more elise or exige. Who would want this in europe where exige is available with a sc v6 no less?

 

I have no problem with a fun car with cofort, but hen you are comparing to a cayman.
Here we have acar without cayman comfort or performance, and without even lotus performance, but the comfort is somehwere in the middle. My opinion is it needs a better motor, so it can smack down a cayman and a lotus. Right now its neither fish nor fowl.

 

That must be on GINORMOUS AC system if its removal saves a couple of hundred pounds

 

Oh man, turning into a pig

 

It has been tested on 2 tracks already and it was faster than an Elise S and the Cayman...but I guess you don't believe this and you must be right....