Diff failures in flat 12 Ferrari's

Tom, go back and at the bottom it will say if you want the thread as a poll, you have to "go advanced" now to add it in.

Great idea !

 

Considering how many cars are out there and what a relatively small percentage of owners are on here, a poll would be statistically flawed, to say nothing of the fact that most sellers are full or crap.... Every car "was babied its whole life" when sale time comes. Most owners on here are not the original owner and have no way of really knowing what kind of life their car had before they purchased it, others aren't honest with themselves about how they treat their car. I've driven with many "expert" enthusiasts who shouldn't be trusted with a golf cart, much less an exotic.

Just my .02

 

Try a different approach. Call Ferrari, and ask how many replacement diffs have been made or sold. Divide by 8000 cars produced, and you have the percentage.

I would think they keep track of stuff like that...

This would answer the question somewhat objectively...once and for all.

My guess, less than 5%.

Bo

 

Another way to look at it is the percentage of people posting thta they have or know of failures vs the total on here.

 

The problem is not only Ferrari built replacement for them.

 

And every one knows someone that knew someone whose brother in law's 2nd cousin's dog walker 's uncle Bob knew someone that had a diff failure... Very hard to get good data this way, unfortunately.

 

And some cars may not have been fixed.

 

I just posted this in another thread - relevant here too.
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Take it from someone who knew their car like the back of their hand and knows it even better now.

There was NO SIGN OF IMPENDING FAILURE!! I shifted into second and KABOOM!!! It was a grenade just waiting to go off. This is a weld failure folks, It's not like something that is going to wear out over time. It just snaps! There will rarely be any warning. If you catch it between welded and broken, THAT's like winning the lottery!

I don't care if you all want to crunch numbers, just look at the failed welds! Look at my weld! Look at all the other welds! That's where they ALL break! If you have a welded one, it WILL break eventually.

So why haven't more broken?? Because they are low mileage garage queens. As soon as the car trickles down to the teenager in the family or sold off to a less privileged lead foot like me, they will survive. But trust me, they will ALL fail eventually.

GIVE ME YOUR WELDED DIFF TR/BOXER AND I WILL BREAK IT IN 30K MILES OR LESS! GUARANTEED!

 

I have 42K miles on my TR and she still enjoys the spirited drive on the twisties. Am I on borrowed time? Maybe. But it does not stop me from enjoying the car. I will inspect at the next major - in the coming months - and decide what to do then.

I can say that of the other local TRs I know of, there have been no failures. And that assortment includes garage queens and a really abused/ratted out example that is NOT treated nicely.

Yes, the diff is a weak link in the car. The ultimate question that - unfortunately - will never be answered is "how weak"...

 

Horse crap.

I have a friend who is the original owner with 250,000 + miles on an 85 TR. Never had the trans apart.

The simple fact is most of the cars got beat like a bad dog early in life, in some cases fracturing the weld.

Are they a weak link? Yes
Has this place caused paranoia? Yes


Most diffs have been changed as a proactive measure. The number sold in no way indicates a percentage of failures. I have one on the shelf and 3 on order right now all going into cars over the fall/winter. Not a single one going into a broken car.

Nobody freaked out over the diffs that self destructed in the Daytona's.......Why?

No internet B.S. rumor mongers back then.

 

For what it's worth...IMHO....Anyone can break anything on any car if they wanted. If you want to take a TR to a "drift" contest or do burnouts, you will break something in the back end, probably the diff. I'm sure the owner of the 250,000 mile TR has it serviced regularly, drives it like he should and doesn't track it, race it, do burnouts, abuse it or drift it.

In general, with mechanical things, s#@t happens and the diff is expensive so it gets press time. Any part can fail...a bolt, a weld or a cast. Comes with the territory and the aging of these toys. Heck, I feel my chances are better with a TR diff than getting aboard an old roller coaster......

 

When I mentioned my concern to Dave Helms at Scuderia Rampante about the diff in my '85 TR with 42,000 miles, he said the problem was overblown and he's never seen a broken diff in the TRs that come to his shop. This says a lot to me.

Rifle, it would be interesting to have a close look at all four of the old diffs you are about to replace to see if they have any signs of failing welds.

 

They were not built by Ferrari at all ...

F sent the specs for a 300 HP version to ZF factory (Germany, also makes them for P, BMW and MB with no failures)...

And they made them according those data for installing starting in the 365.

Tr and 512TR have 25% or more HP's ... that's why this happens all the times ... poor Italian design ! Simple welds...

 

I will laugh in your face and throw dog poop on your shoes when it happens to you!!!

Oh, and I would love to see a TR with 1/4 million miles on it! If you drive it like my grandpa, then it may never break. Drive fast and take chances old man!

 

Mel – I am not a car engineer at all and did not study mechanics (I am an electrical engineer) but the load on mechanics such as diffs is determined by torque and not by horsepower. Not saying that a TR has less torque than a 365…

Brian – Thanks for putting things into relation…

Markus

 

With my luck, I'm sure mine will break next week. I should have zipped my lips or my fingers....

Well....we have 2 of the finest (Mr. Crall and Mr. Helms) saying the same thing...low incidence of failure. I think it is in the S#@T happens category.

 

Sorry to say Scott, but I am very interested in the experience of these “old men” who have fixed more F-cars than I have ever seen!

Markus

 

Of course Markus, you are right ! I am also not an engineer ...

But I have had this failure ... (you can read all about that) ...

Brian stated "Has this place caused paranoia? Yes" ....

It's not a paranoia at all .... just F friends informing each other here about the risk AND how to cope with it .. e.g. help getting new parts ...

Because that is absolutely a thing: where to get the right parts ... apart from costs, NOT simple at all !

 

Yup yup, and sh*t will happen more and more as time goes by.

 

Exactly Mel. Everyone can be as paranoid as they want or bury their head in the sand.

When it happens to them we'll be here to help.

 

The TR has a good amount of torque but my guess is, if you want to throw the rear end around at speed with that weigh, odds are you will break something.

If I want pure speed, I hop in the 470 HP Jaguar XF- Supercharged. I can blow the doors off the TR with the air condition on, Andrea Bocelli blasting, sunroof open and with 4 people. The best part is....if I break something....it is under a factory warrantee!

 

But its not cool like a Testarossa or boxer.