Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

I find the overhang most pleasing.

 

courses.

What a company.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142730050-post416.html

 

P1 review by Tom Ford.

Source: World exclusive first drive: McLaren P1 - BBC Top Gear

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napolis
Horacio's cars are WAY beyond any of these three in terms of fit, finish and bespoke quality.

In that regard Horacio stands alone.

Hello again James, it is me. I am very sorry to have put you in this delicate position to respond, I understand that perhaps you are no able to respond to my enquiry since it is most probably that you not been able to see or drive LaFerrari, 918 or P1 enough intimately so to be able to verify enough accurately your statement above. I wish you so much luck in your effort with Pagani to build a great machine of your design that will make humble these 3 new hyperscars. Do you think you can design a new machine that will be innovativ and most beautiful at the same time or do you place these values below superior performance for your quest of the best hypercar in the history? Perhaps you can make your main objectiv to be the first sub 6:30 roadcar Nurburgring time just to show the 3 main rivals that they are complete talk and no action. I am a fan of your mechanical genius, yes James, you can do it, show the world what a true JG hypercar should be constructed, do not worry if it is not pretty, it is YOUR baby, go James go!

 

Borrowing this post from Fabian/fytl on McLife who is a future P1 owner and attended one of the preview drive opportunities in Woking and at Dunsfold today. This info should put to rest some doubts, I would hope.

>8^)
ER

 

Fantastic technological advancement if true! But now I am confused because James G say that P1 is a disappointment because P1 will not have sufficient electric charge to go fast again on the next lap, there for P1 is a single lap hero.

 

I like Jim and generally respect his opinions, but I'll prefer in this instance to take the word of someone who is purchasing the P1 and drove it today, giving them firsthand knowledge of how it performs.

Attack formation.

>8^)
ER
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well, secondhand. Unless he drove the car himself on the Nordschleife.

 

Specifically to the Ring, sure.

Feel free to completely disregard his comments about the drive today and the fact that the engine would run out of fuel before the battery is ever fully depleted if that makes you feel better.

>8^)
ER

 

"Trust me and accept when I tell you, it all makes sense. The Hybrid regen system they have developed is staggeringly good. It regens battery power all the time, it does so very quickly. It uses up to the full 130kw of the e-motor to do so depending on scenario, it also sometimes uses very little... Whatever it can do, it will regen without losing ANY power required on the wheels."

Would be nice to get more clarification on this. The battery is getting regenerated all the time even under wide open throttle (engine + hybrid boost) without any loss of power to the wheels?

 

Note that it says any required power. If the traction control is limiting power to the wheels that would otherwise be wasted, even under wide open throttle that leaves additional power available to recharge the battery pack.

>8^)
ER

 

a lot of info that explains nothing. so what I gather from his statements is what has been known all along:

it is 100% dependent on the petrol motor to keep the battery topped off. that comes with its own compromises. under 'normal' driving, i'm sure bleeding 'excess' power from the petrol motor to charge the batteries is a seamless process. as for 'running out of petrol before running out of battery charge'...isn't that the same theoretical that LaF should be capable of doing?

 

the LaF is thought to do this very same thing..except they call it 'excess torque'...

 

Yes, but eventually you will get to a speed and trajectory where the traction control will not need to limit power to the wheels. At this point if there is regeneration going on it's at the expense of engine power.

 

correct. without regen from other means (such as braking) the parasitic affect will be more frequent. it sounds like the car was designed to bleed petrol motor power during corners and such. appears that Mac has made regen feel smooth giving the 'sense' that there is no power loss. I want to know all the gritty details for the 918 and LaF systems.

 

One would imagine that Ferrari will employ these same tricks.

Yes, a lot of that info is observation - you would have needed to participate in the discussions they had with their engineers for the detailed explanations. I think these observations add value to the discussion because the notion of always having available hybrid power has seemed foreign to so many participants in these discussions.

McLaren calls it excess torque as well - for instance at the limited top speed of 217 MPH they will have excess torque to keep the battery charged, therefore again, no matter how long the P1 is pushed the battery will never fully deplete before you run out of fuel.

While this is the 'versus' thread please don't take my comments to suggest that one is better than the other. It is too early to fully judge any of them. I am simply trying to educate and clear up misconceptions, promoting a more intelligent conversation.

>8^)
ER

 

any info that adds to the discussion is welcomed. we are not getting nearly enough imo. the technology is fascinating, as is the way each manufacturer is exploiting it. what i'm also getting from all this is that each car has built in 'artificial' thresholds that allows the cars to charge the batteries under varying conditions or driving dynamics.

 

I'd also love a chance to pour over the white papers - I'd be struggling to understand some of it but I would certainly try. This week was really the first opportunity for customers to get behind the wheel of the P1, save for the few cars that have been delivered. I think it will just take a while before we gain a better understanding of how all these new hybrid systems work as it appears they are working better than most expected they will. The assumptions of power compromises do seem to be getting more play than deserved.

The bigger takeaway is that so far all the people who have driven the P1 and 918 have been largely blown away by them. No word on the LaFerrari but people would be stupid to count them out just because they are behind in the development phase compared to the others.

>8^)
ER

 

"at the limited top speed" is the key word.

what about below it? there's no track where the car will be doing 217 mph in the straight, lest say constantly.

I find it somehow uncomfortable that the driver needs to be pressing the IPAS and DRS buttons every time he steps out of a corner...

 

Of course not, but apparently you glazed over the rest of what was written in the posts that preceded that statement?

Seems the real problem is that no one here, barring a few lucky souls who have driven the 918 already, have ever experienced a car that has been engineered to perform this way and new things always generate skepticism.

I've sat in the P1 a couple of times, however, never even with the engine running so I won't claim to have all the answers, but the news from today's drives goes a long way towards clearing up some of the most prevalent misconceptions. Whether people want to believe it or not yet is I guess up to them. We should expect that if Ferrari have done their homework that owners will report a similar experience so mattering not which new hybrid supercar you may prefer, this news should excite us all.

>8^)
ER

 

Very interesting to see how this discussion flow about P1 hybrid technology is turned the current in the opposite direction now..hehehe, (current….very funny no?). I find very intersting that the first negative doubting people feel they can criticise the ways of Mclaren engineering team, as like they know better. I still wait for a response from engineer guru James G regards why Pagani is so much superior in quality, fit/finish, etcetera over all others. Sad but slowly I lose faith in him. James, please share you insider knowledge and expertice.

 

and at racing speeds for a second lap.

Eric do you seriously think that McLaren has found a way to contravene the laws of thermodynamics?

Those who have actually driven a car on a race track at 10/10 or looked at lap after lap of race telemetry know exactly how much of the time a car is at 100%TP on a race lap.

The laws of physics remain firmly in place. P1 has no ability to recover "free" otherwise lost kinetic energy by recapturing that "free" otherwise lost kinetic energy through KERS. That is pure fact.

The statement you quote is laughable. When the petrol engine is being used to recharge IPAS less total HP is available to power the car period.

Watch the BMW video. Listen for tire chirp. Watch the LaFerrari and P1 videos. Listen for tire chirp. Think about using GPS as we did and further refining that use to adjust TC and Anti skid AT EVERY CORNER. 918 so far is the King. Many were surprised by their time. 918 is heavier. P1 claims to make more downforce. McLaren's Ring Lap Pr is a total disaster and so far McLaren hasn't proven that they can run a faster Ring lap then 918 much less two.

When the flag drops the BS stops. Porsche has dropped the flag. McLaren and Ferrari to date have not.

Do you seriously believe that if McLaren was King of the Ring they wouldn't shout it from the roof tops? They clearly said they would be. Weren't you there when FS told me they would be? Sounds of Silence.

 

In race mode there shouldn't be any traction control from which to draw excess power.

The only way I see the regen implemented is as a function of the gear and steering lock.

In low gears, where no matter the condition you are in, the wheels will spin if you go full throttle, some torque could be automatically directed to the batteries. Same applies for some degrees of steering lock. Red bull is said to do similarly in F1.

Imagine the engine automatically becoming a generator in low gears and low revs.

This method should prove less effective on fast tracks and the P1 system will always be the least effective with no reg braking and turbo lag.

 

From soon-to-be owner reports today, the car is beyond phenomenal, but you can't argue with this. The whole thing is totally inexplicable and, I'm sorry, no company can boast sub-7 and then claim the exact time doesn't matter. What?

 

Exacto.