Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

The Laws of Physics remain firmly in place as you've posted.

 

Has Trott given his 12C back yet or have they just given it to him as a thankyou?

 

I agree with you. Nobody forced McL to declare a "sub 7" target, but they did. And when they skirt the issue now, even the most naive among us knows that they botched something. Could have been the driver, could have been the tires, could have been the brakes, could have been the ride height. But they made a miscalculation and they are hiding.

That's right, I said "hiding."

 

James do you think

1. it is not possible Mclaren is King of the Ring?

2. they MUST declare a time for everybody to believe them are King of the Ring?

3. Mclaren make care about disbeliever?

 

True.

 

James, why this is True??

 

James why you smile? do you think REALLY they have gifted this reporter with a 12C? Do you know something we donot know? Please tell!

 

McLaren's gifting a 12C to Trott has probably hurt EVO more than it has helped McLaren (and it was never really going to help McLaren anyway--the internetz is still king of information).

I hope EVO never do this again. Sad to see Harry depart, and even sadder now that this sham has happened immediately after. As much as Chris Harris annoys me sometimes, his no BS approach is starting to look refreshing.

 

Erik--

If your goal for a racetrack isn't a time--or "winning," as most people call it--then you might as well go home. Because that means you've already "lost," as most people call it.

McLaren injecting a new standard of measurement into the 'Ring (the whole full power on the back straight thing) for their own purposes only proves that point.

 

Harry left EVO?

 

Gone to work for Jaguar in vehicle planning/development.

 

There must be a vacancy opening at mclaren next.

 

I come back to this thread to find a page of people who have as much experience with the P1 as I do (or significantly less in most cases) talking about how it must perform. Why does this not surprise me?

I appreciate that it seems unlikely the P1 can operate the way that they say it does, but also keep in mind that Ferrari are hoping to take advantage of the same technology-based performance benefits and have spec'd an even smaller battery than the P1 has to go along with that. Surely these manufacturers aren't adding a hybrid system as a novelty or because it is hip and green - they are adding it because it changes the game.

McLaren say that required power to the wheels is not lost in an effort to keep the battery charged no matter the conditions and that under no circumstances does the battery go completely flat except in E-mode. Skeptics can remain skeptics - I am not here to change your minds, but rather to share the information that has been supplied. As time goes on I am sure more study will be given to their claims and more details will emerge to either make that clear or prove them wrong.

>8^)
ER

 

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McLaren have said a lot of things,...

Haven't they?

 

Untrue. The fact of the matter is all P1's have been allocated, not sold out to their end users. There is a big difference. Technically speaking, yes McLaren has "sold out" of the P1 in the sense that all build slots have been "spoken for" but this doesn't not mean a perspective buyer is out of luck. What I mean by this is it is still possible to order a P-1 to spec, there is at least one dealership, maybe more in the US who are still taking orders. I have read FChat for years but haven't felt compelled to post until now and only because I felt the need to clarify the statement that the P1 is "sold out". In fact, I know of a dealership who just took a deposit on a P1 today, with a promised delivery date no later than June 2015. The build slot was not made available because another customer changed their mind, but because this dealership was granted a larger allocation. Allegedly, it also helped the customer was also a 12C owner already. The point of my post isn't in anyway to down the P1's ability on the road or track, it's to help shed shed some light on the misconception the P1 is "sold out". The same could theoretically be the same for the LaFerrari, but I doubt it, if Ferrari does have build slots until led its most likely because they are reserving them for special customers or rewards for dealers within their network doing well at selling other less desirable models (like the FF, not that I don't love it!).

Additionally, I appreciate the technical discussion that's been posted here and elsewhere on the forum. Hopefully, with time, we will learn more about all three of the new supercars and their approaches to hybrid technology. It will certainly be interesting to see how the technology trickles down into other future models.

Also, I'd like to say that while the LaFerrari is my favorite of the new supercars (aesthetically and on paper, I haven't had the priveldge of driving any of then 3, YET!), Ferrari has also seemingly had the most time to fine tune their final product. I think that's important to consider when setting the "bar" these cars are supposed to reach performance wise.

Finally, I'd like to ask.. Are the manufactures production number claims including or excluding potential "special editions"? For example, if McLaren introduces a N-Ring edition P1 is that included in the 375? XX program LaFerrari in the 499? I know it would just be speculation but Im curious to know what the general consensus is when it comes to that and how that will effect the value of these vehicles as time passes.

 

Seriously Simon??? First they get vilified for not saying enough when they had first said too much in regards to Ring times, now you want to damn them for explaining and demonstrating the function of their new system to customers and having everyone who has come in contact with the car being blown away? Yeah, McLaren are all talk...

Jim - Sorry - I didn't major in physics and don't recognize the equation you referenced.

I know you consider yourself quite knowledgeable given your recent efforts with P4/5C. Correct me if I am wrong, but with your project power was only being recovered from kinetic energy through the rear brakes? The system employed by the P1 is significantly different to that being geared off the crankshaft, and so effective that they determined that recovering power via the brakes was unnecessary and would have introduced compromises they did not want to manage.

Obviously people like to imagine that on a race track your foot is always planted to the floor but in practice that is rarely the case beyond short bursts leaving plenty of opportunity to harvest excess power from the ICE. Don't take mine or McLaren's word for it though.

>8^)
ER

 

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142732198-post3922.html

 

Jim, I think you are missing the point slightly, and I may be wrong, but in endurance racing it seems to be about fuel efficiency and also efficient energy recovery. mclarens system doesn't care about fuel efficiency or even efficient recovery - they just seem to burn petrol whenever they can so that they can have more torque when it is really needed

 

Does anyone have an idea about the customer demand for these three cars?

Although the 918 certainly seems to be the King at the Ring, is it the King in terms of customer demand?

Or is the LaFerrari the one collectors are going for?

And then where does the P1 stack up.

 

No - I think they have done what they said they have done which is develop a means to harvest extra power from the ICE not being used to motivate the car in an effort to keep the battery topped off under all conditions except for E-Mode.

They're not claiming the production of free energy. If they had discovered a means to produce free energy then using it to power a hypercar produced in numbers of 375 would hardly be the most profitable application of such a solution.

It's not laughable if the power the petrol engine can generate is not being used to power the car forward. Don't take my word for it - listen to the people who have developed and who have driven the car., or don't listen to them at all if your mind is so set on the inability for technological advancement.

If you are talking about the on-board you shared, all I hear in the BMW video is gear whine.

I think McLaren have said what they want to say about the Ring and that beating their sub-7:00 goal is an amazing achievement. Obviously they are taking a calculated risk not releasing their final result as a lap time, but I was told that decision was Ron's - the very same person who told the world they would set a new benchmark. I haven't had the privilege to ask him why.

I know it is easier to believe they have clammed up because they don't have something to brag about, but that's just one guess and not necessarily the right one.

>8^)
ER

 

Porsche is still (as of just a couple of weeks ago) flying people on private jets to test the 918 at track events in order to convince them to give a deposit. Clearly they still have a number of cars to sell. How many is anyone's guess, but one would imagine they saw a boost in interest with the Ring time they published. Their plans have them building more than double the number of cars as McLaren will and slightly less than twice the number Ferrari committed to. Production had been suggested to begin on 9/18 and photos of the production line appeared but it remains unclear if deliveries have actually begun.

McLaren have stated the P1 is sold out - there are still some customers who have placed deposits that have not confirmed their order and could potentially back out, but McLaren also have additional demand in certain markets which could absorb those cars if they became available. McLaren are the only ones out of the three who are definitely already delivering the product. There are at least 5 in the hands of customer so far (3 in the UK, one in Switzerland, and one in Dubai) with probably more that have not yet been seen. A report from Friday mentioned another 5 were at the end of the assembly line in the MPC complete and ready for delivery, with several more in-build behind them.

Ferrari has the luxury of significant demand and despite earlier reports of some people balking at the price, it would be fair to imagine by now they also have at least one buyer for all 499 LaFerrari's they said they would build and probably a few more buyers for the cars that will surely be produced beyond that. It's unclear when production or first deliveries will begin - there had been talk of October, but I think that target was missed. One user here said they hoped to deliver 30 before the end of the year, but that statement is from late April and there has been some talk of development challenges since then.

>8^)
ER

 

Its very easy to claim sub 7.00 at the ring (that's the easy part) and a great deal harder to go and prove it.

Until McLaren come up with proof, their claims are meaningless.

Manufacturers can claim anything, especially when they have so much riding on a project.

 

What you consider as meaningless is only one opinion. While I am sure there are more than a few here that share your opinion, it isn't the only opinion. Pretty clear that so far McLaren isn't wavering based on those dissenting opinions either.

I assume you disregard all other manufacturers claims until they are proven to you, right?

Ferrari claimed on the stand at Geneva when they revealed LaFerrari that it would accelerate to 300km/h in 15 seconds - pretty impressive actually - so where is the proof of that? Why is no one upset that they have made that claim and not yet proven it?

Ferrari also claimed an absurd 1,700lbs of downforce with the Enzo at 186 MPH. When someone here tested that in a wind tunnel he went on to write that the actual figures were nowhere near that, not even close.

So tell me, why does Ferrari generally get a pass on their "claims" but now that McLaren want to take the same approach suddenly it's considered an affront to all mankind? Funny thing, that double standard.

>8^)
ER