Alfa 4C - "Without The Heart We Would Be Mere Machines"

No, they added 200 lbs for the US car (apparently). But the AC is not an option in US cars as it is in Euro cars so that's part of this additional weight increase.

The whole point is to be a light car. I'm sure Alfa isn't adding weight just because "they can".

 

Depends on which spec cayman. Hell a C6 vette is faster than them all, and an elise is just one computer program away from being much much fastser car, for a little more money there is an exige V6 which is GT3 performance.

Look at the evo ecoty, and they are not the only ones critical of the car, most criticaly the steering and motor.

I love old Alfas, they had very predicatble handling, were not the fastest, but their motors were true gems, machines that could sing.

By all acounts the 4c motor is far from charismatic in the way it produces power or sound. So a major alfa trait is lost. The steering comes in for some criticism. The US version is going to be alot heavier.

It sounds like the Miata based spider will have the same motor and similar weight. Assuming the new miata and by extension alfa drive like the old miata, its going to be hard to beat.

The 4C needs more going for it than is currently the case. The power can probably be upgraded with time, and the steering worked out. But the weight reports comming in sound bad,

As it is, based on what we read this is not a fully cooked machine, it shows promise but is not there, at least based on what we read.

To my mind, based on the info available, its performance/driving experience is less than the spec and preprodution excitement would lead one to have expected. Its like the KTM xbow, just not quite there, looks really exciting in form and spec, but somehow lacks..

 

they said something about crash protection/bumper reinforcements , metal in the structure to help with crash deformation, a whole host of airbags and luxury items they think are a must for the us market.

If a dry weight euro spec car is 2000lbs, wet weight is going to be 2100, add 200 lbs for the US and we are at 2300lbs, but there is lots of talk of 2500lbs. This will still make it very light, and if it had a twin turbo V6 at that weight really fast too, but it does not have such a motor.

Funny thing, the elise electric window system is lighter than the manual crank system.

You have to be either really light or really powerful or both, so far the Alfa looks to be a little of each.

But yeah i am sure that it can be developed into something formidable, we wills ee when they start showing up at the track.

 

So it has to be faster of which car exactly? Seems like faster than the Elise S and the standard Cayman is not good enough for you....

By the way Evo is not the bible.....there is not a magazine in the UK, Italy, France, Germany and the US who gave the car less than 4 stars with the majority giving it 4.5 stars out of 5. I understand it's not enough though

 

You are wasting your time rebutting all the ramblings I am afraid... I just skip the posts
Jes

 

What makes this evo test more trustworthy is, (i), that it goes on for a week, (ii), many well known writers with great histories get involved.

Nothing anyone says is the final word on matters of personal preference, but the results from such tests can't be equivocated with one or two day drives by one writer -- especially when it's in isolation.

 

You are probably right...not sure why I feel like I need to reply

 

By the way....for people interested in lap time, Quattroruote tested the 4C on its Vairano circuit and they got a pretty impressive time IMO
Have a look at the video: La Prova | Alfa Romeo 4C: il giro di pista - La Prova - QuattroruoteTV
Below link will give you an idea of other lap times at Vairano:
Vairano Handling Course lap records - FastestLaps.com

 

I am really glad the low volume alfa 4C is coming to America and after reading car and driver review it seems like a great new exotic for 55 grand.

It's not always about the numbers but the experience a unique beauty offers.

 

Effing u.s. always has to go effing up great sports cars; just ask the 308 and 328 crowd; now they gotta go pork up the 4c. Effing morons.

 

everybody is getting excited because its a CF tub and looks great.
Is the CF tub lighter thana similar minimalist car in aluminum fibergalss?

So what is the draw here, pretty much no one has said the steering is superlative like a lotus, and the powerplant is somewhat uninspiring.

Frankly I expected a light car with superlative steering, I expected that as it is a bloown motor it would have takedown power like the AMG turbo 4. Maybe this car will be developed to have those traits, as it is now, in my opinion, based on what I have read,(and based only on that so far) this car shows promise, but is not compelling.

 

Yes, but more importantly stronger and stiffer.

 

True, so in theory the suspension can be better. But has the 4c acheived this? Maybe, but there are the comments about the weird on center steering feel, and the motor just does not seem to live up to the rest.

Based of course only on what i have read.

 

Could be ... not necessarily is.
Pete

 

Why do you say this? Do you really believe that could be the case looking at the technique used? They are using top of the range materials and pre=preg technique for the carbon tub so I don't see ANY chance that it could NOT be stronger and stiffer than an alu chassis.

On another note...for the ones who prefer a Cayman: https://docs.zoho.com/file/gu1wa102cc2ac86a84d18a3f7c1ed7cc8c162

 

I'm just saying it's not the material used that determines the end design strength but how it is used. I'm sure it's been done well but instead of assuming I'd rather see published facts and figures that prove it.
Pete

 

I read some more of the track tests. the comparison is to the 2.7 cayman, which is a slow dog. The articles love the car, but all comment on its nature which sounds a lot like an elise. Also there are comments that the front and rear are not fully in synch with eachother, and some weird steering traits.

I am sure in time this will be developed into a great car,maybe one of the greats, but right now from what I read its not fully cooked, apiuty because they are pretty close..

With 3500 per year to be produced there should be enough cars out there for a vibrant aftermarket. Maybe from that we will get betetr shocks and it can be chipped to produce
serious power and some revs.

My guess is to make it relaibe with launch control its all abit dialed back. Probably for track work the motor can be wound up a few notches, the suspension more fully developed etc, and then we will see.

I dont know ehther this is true for cars, but when motorcycles were made too stiff the handling became impossible, now some frame flex is designed in. In any event bushings are going to provide some relative slop, and the aluminum subframes are going to flex no matter how rigid the tub.. My guess is that with development in a few years this will be a really great track car.

 

Well the 200 extra pounds and the average soundtrack killed it for me. Cant buy knowing i would be getting a heavier version than what it should be. If it devaluates, then it might be worth a 2nd look.

 

Am I happy with this? No. Does it turn me off entirely? No.

I need to see more of it. Its too early. But I agree, it's disappointing as are the stupid US bumper add ons.

 

I wasnt as turned on by it as you were to begin with but I was interested. I had an Alfa in law school and thought it would be cool to get another one eventhough I was not sold on the sound and interior perceived quality. But reading that the car is now 200 pounds heavier killed it for me at that price. I havent read the EVO piece but it seems they didnt really care for it. It's too bad, it's a beautiful body.

For a little more I would love to go with a manual 360.

 

I think I will wait for the twn turbio V6 maserati version/

 

You may wait a very long time. Like 'till infinity. Maserati has no interest whatsoever of selling a low production sports car. They are now trying to become a mass production luxury maker. Small sports cars are not in the plan.

Take it to the bank.

 

I thought Sergio was mumbling a while ago about the V6 version of the 4c which people took to mean maser. But yeah its Fiat lots of fluidity these days.

Still f you see what the toyota V6 did for the exige, a masser twin turbo V6 in a 4c even if it takes weight to 26-2700lbs is going to be agame changer. Cant think of another 2700lb car with 400 hp. That to me is compelling.

 

Review from Richard Hammond:

Hammond drives the Alfa Romeo 4C - BBC Top Gear

 

What's interesting about Alfa... and I've found since I was first introduced to the brand as a kid... is that people for some reason love this brand and will excuse almost everything to keep it around.

I think it's because Alfa has always done things it's own way for it's own reasons. It makes cars that owners love to put up with. And, it has always made "pretty cars" with some quirky Italian style.

It sounds like the 4 C is no different. "You can't really compare it to anything else, because it just doesn't fit in the pigeonhole. It's the best in class by default, because it's the only thing in its class.

As Hammond says: "You can't really compare it to anything else, because it just doesn't fit in the pigeonhole. It's the best in class by default, because it's the only thing in its class."

What's going to kill this car though is what has always plagued Alfa... management. It's doing all this PR and can't make and deliver a single car to anyone. It shows a video of owners picking up their cars but they weren't. It says the car weighs under 2000 lbs but rumors are the US version is 2400. It says it's coming to the USA again and there are no dealers or information from dealers or even showrooms for cars.

The more things change... the more they stay the same.