MP4 prices are really plummeting on resale

You will love the 12C in that department. When I nail it on the street, you can see the traction control light flicker in gears 1-3! And when it hooks up you really feel that, too.

 

With all do respect... If they priced the car for less, say $75,000- 100,000 the demand would have been higher. Maybe, there would even be a wait to get one. It's just supply and demand. Lower the price and the demand increases. I'd argue that they didn't make too many but mispriced the car too high.

 

Wow! What he said!!!

 

We'll said. What a great read this thread is. It should be copied to all the other categories.

 

This is too good not to be repeated! I will move forward with the DCT wanting the latest/ greatest but deep down I will miss the additional pleasure of being further engaged by a good manual TM. Who made the best manual transmission (Porsche?) and which car?

 

What he said again!

 

I own a Mclaren and a 458 Ferrari both have the flappy panels and they work very well and make the cars faster than a manual car would be.

Having said that I like manual cars better, I just enjoy the shifting. It makes a low hp car feel exciting. I own a 2013 vette 427 that is manual and ordered my 2014 Vette as a manual transmission.

I guess I agree with both gentleman. If I had a choice on transmission it would be manual. In fact I wish I had my 250 Modena instead of the 458 for that reason.

Best

Lee

 

I recently bought a 2012 McLaren and I am having more fun than I would have ever imagined with the paddle shifter. I don't miss the manual trans of the G one bit...but then again, its only been three weeks without it. I'll check back in a few months.

 

I predict you'll like the Mac even more. The more I drive it the more I am convinced that the driving experience and performance potential are so vast, and so different from cars that came before, that even the so-called experts could not appreciate and understand in their short experience with the car. I am amazed every time I drive and at 5500 miles and growing more impressed than I thought I'd be, and I expected a great deal.

 

I'm not piling on here but let's be honest. A new Spider (well, 140 miles on it) selling at under MSRP from a dealer this early isn't a good sign that there's a turn around coming.

2013 McLaren Mp4-12C Spider Houston, Texas | Lamborghini Houston

Lowest price I've seen for a 12C yet... and from an authorized dealer.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Silver over blue? Um, what would a 458 in that combo draw with a ghastly 4000 miles on the clock.

 

I've had many fast cars (1000 plus HP and a few exotics). I absolutely love this McLaren and is the nicest and most fun car I've ever had! I can't grasp the idea that the McLaren lacks soul (I've heard several people say this). Anyway, I am more than happy with my purchase and look forward to driving it every chance I get.

 

8 months later a quick eBay search shows 88 458s and 12 MP4s with the 2010 458s on par with the 2012 MP4 in price but I think the 458 depreciation has accelerated and MP4 slowed in the last 8 months. 458 will hold a higher value for sure, but if I was a used buyer right now, I bet the depreciation rates will be very similar between the 2 cars over the next few years. Part of this is the 458s are coming out of warranty and MP4s still have some left. Pay full sticker for a new 458 and you are going to lose at least $50K in 12 months IMO.

High mileage 458s are under $200K (at least one is), and I suspect $225K buys a very nice 2010 458.

If anything, I think the MP4 depreciation has dragged down the 458, as I can personally say that it makes no sense to pay $275K for a 2012 458 when I can (and did) buy a brand new 2012 MP4 for way less. Likewise, why pay $250K for an out-of-warranty 458 when you can buy a MP4 for $200K or so?

 

The Mac is a tremendous value for money, for sure!!

I wonder when they'll level off?

 

Well Keith, I bought my 2012 MP4 for sticker in August 2012, I guess that gives me added incentive to keep it.

 

They are seriously amazing value. Still too expensive for me

 

I think my point is that they have leveled off. A used MP4 is not much less now that it was 8 months ago and the delta between used 458 and MP4 is closing.

 

Slowing down but certainly not leveling off.

One month ago on Cars.com there was one offered for less than 200K. Today there are 9.

One month ago there was one spider listed for sale. Today there are 11 and most at or under MSRP.

It's pretty clear that McLaren has not learned to control it's inventory. There's no excuse for 11 spiders to be for sale at less than MSRP.

2012 12c coupes are going for the same price as 2011 California's apples to apples (mileage, condition, etc), which is totally nutty if you think about it. The 12c is a complete bargain today.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I think it's probably slowing down to a more regular rate on the used cars. I could see 10K/year here on out. If you buy a nice car at $200K or less right now, I could see it being $150K 4 years from now.

I still wouldn't buy a new one though.

 

I'd bet more like $120K.

 

I doubt it. Inflation and overall price creep will support prices. As car prices continue to climb and inflate, so do the floor prices for quite a while. This will be aided by the fact that the 12C will still be competitive with what will be out then as well.

Today $100K buys you a good 2005-2006 Gallardo or a very very used 2005-2006 430. Those are 8-9 years old and soon to be two generations behind in performance, styling, and desirability.

A 6 year old 12C will be one generation behind, have performance probably still very comparable to Ferrari and Lamborghini, and be in an environment of ever increasing MSRP. I highly doubt a 6 year old 12C in 2018 will carry only a $20K premium to an 8-9 year old G/bad 430 today.

 

My point was 12C coupes really have slowed in depreciation. Meanwhile, 458 depreciation is finally accelerating, as you would expect now that the 458 enters model year 5.

Spyders may be getting cheaper already. I suspect the same will be true for 458s soon.

 

It will be interesting to see how the baby Mac will fit in this scenario.

 

Here's a take from a guy who just bought a 12C coupe on Saturday......ME.

IMHO the vast majority of the people who have watched these cars tank have added to the woes by talking about what the car isn't. Myths have been given life - things like the car is boring to drive, it lacks soul, it's ugly, etc. I can assure all of you that the car looks great in person and it sure as heck isn't boring to drive.

The early marketing debacle with this car is quite similar to what happened with the CGT's back in late '05. At that time, Porsche didn't want to comply with the new side-impact airbag requirements for US cars in 2006, so they took the 2006 CGT's destined for the US and crammed them into the 2005 US allocation. Couple this oversupply with the fact that many dealers had submitted stooge orders to make sure they got an allocation and the fact that many real customers simply changed their minds when it came time to pony up, and VOILA - the cars tanked in the secondary market. People started talking about what the CGT's weren't instead of what they are - the iconic supercar of the last decade (along with the Enzo). I bought my CGT in perfect condition with 2,500 miles on it for $285K and thought I had robbed a bank. And yes, when the overhang got absorbed into the right hands, I sold it for a tidy little profit.

Fast forward to the 12C and the fact pattern is quite similar. McLaren is entering the NA marketplace and trying to accurately gauge product demand. They have just 9 franchised dealers across the country and they are segmenting their product against the wildly successful and popular 458. Right as they get ready to introduce 450 2012 12C's into the US market, the European economy was taking a gigantic dump so McLaren redirected 300 additional cars to the US.

Presto, the delicate supply-demand balance had just been leveled a la the CGT debacle. The cherry on top is that McLaren had some early production glitches (IRIS NAV system primarily) that generated some negative publicity, but which they subsequently fixed on all cars while also throwing in a power upgrade to boot.

And now all I hear are people badmouthing the 12C's, when they are in fact spectacular cars. I paid just over what a nice Scud (which I also previously owned) would cost me in today's market and I can't help but think how much more special the 12C is - and that says a lot because I think Scuds are AWESOME cars. Like many others have said, I can't get excited about paying another $60-70K to get a comparably equipped low mileage 2012 458 when it is so comparable to the 12C.

Different strokes for different folks, but I have yet to hear too many complaints about
12C's from guys who own them. I suspect that this supply-demand imbalance will soon level off for the coupes and they will find a home in the $180-200K range. I can't think of another supercar that I'd rather buy at that price point.

Flak jacket on. Feel free to fire away with different opinions. Best regards to all.

 

I actually agree. I think the market is about 180-200 for a good example -- and that's a terrific bargain for what you get.

The problem is it's at the expense of the loyal early adopters who go creamed because McLaren's poor marketing and over shipping the US market in 2012 crushed their resell value worse than I've ever seen a super car.

One person in Ferrari ad's has one that lost 100K in value in one year for about 2000 miles. Sorry, that should NEVER happen to a loyal customer. Do you expect him to come back?

It's not owners who are to blame. It's certainly not Ferrari or Ferrari owners who are to blame. It's McLaren.

A used Mac now is a fantastic bargain. On that we do agree. The only issue is distance to dealer service and repair costs, which are still quite high. If you don't mind those, you can get something actually way undervalued for the performance dollar.