McLaren Depreciation 12-C: a nightmare- werewolf?

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the only thing I liked better on the 458 is the sound and transmission. everything else the 12c does better

the kiss of death for the 458 spyder is I got use to the stiff 12c chassis. the 458 spyder looked great but was not enjoyable to drive on anything other than a straight line

the 2014 12c spider infotainment system is awesome -- it totally addresses the only minor complaints I had with the 2012 12c

 

It's called herding. People will make decisions based on what everyone else in the herd is doing or approves of. You can see this concept at work everywhere from the stock market, to real estate etc. People do what other people are doing because its perceived to be safe and correct. Hence why they always need "expert opinion" and approval from the rest of their counterparts. This stems from the fact that not too long ago people had to rely on groups in order to survive. That trait has continued on today but has manifested itself in many different ways. Take Ferrari, people buy rosso corsa only because its the "safe" thing to do, regardless if its really their preference or not, infact they probably don't even know what their own preference would be if they didn't allude to the group. People like Ferrari because that is what everyone likes. Plain and simple.

Herd mentality also explains why it is very difficult for new ideas or new products to enter a market. Even superior products may not be what the consensus feels to be superior. You'll get nonsense entirely subjective statements such as "but it has a soul, emotion" How can a car have a soul in the first place? It's dead. Herds also do not like it when someone questions or disagrees with the decision. Since their own choice was dependent but not independent they begin to freak out. You can see that in action on this forum and mclaren life. Two groups of chimpanzee's meeting at opposite ends of a watering hole hooting and hollering at each other.

In a population you will have a tiny % who decide to break away from the herd and effectively be independent. These guys will take advantage of the primitive thinking habit and go against the consensus. They tend to be 0.01% and be filthy rich etc. In many cases they actually end up deciding what the majority should be herding around.

By the way the majority of cars that "expert opinion" validated are now long forgotten.

 

What a load of BULL!

 

Just picked up 2014 MP4-12C Spider. Selling my 2013 458 Titanium (it's in the classifieds). Sorry but I think someone is insecure about their 458 Spidey purchase.
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Moooooo! FOURZUH FURRERI! And Eat More Chickin! Fortunately, Honey Badgers don't herd.

 

The problem is that EVO doesn't have a long-term Ferrari 458 to compare it against. Put that reviewer back in the 458 for a day and he will probably be more appreciative of the McLaren!

My gut feel (owning both cars) is that over the long term most people who own both will gravitate to the McLaren and end up enjoying it more. It's hard to put into words exactly why but I think the super-stuff chassis, that makes everything work so well and feel so solid, is probably the one of the key reasons but I suspect the transmission! and higher level of performance are also reason to love the Mac.

When I drive my McLaren for a few days and then switch to the Ferrari it feels like someone loosened all the bolts in the Ferrari. It just feels a little cheap compared to the McLaren. It's time for Ferrari to embrace a carbon fiber chassis in their 458 replacement. If Alfa can do it for so cheap then Ferrari should be doing it too.

I can't wait to see what McLaren will do with a replacement for the 12C. I imagine they'll make changes that address the editorial nonsense while also kicking the performance up another notch. Personally I find it a very exciting car to drive.

But either way they're both great cars and if you're lucky to have either then consider yourself very fortunate,

 

Gorgeous car! Congrats!

 

Good luck with that. You missed the drive for free boat. 48 coupes on eBay and already 27 spiders, and you haven't even got the car yet, and it's winter. Don't forget the $20K in sales tax unless you traded even.

If you keep that car a year and drive a few thousand miles, I bet you'll be $50K down if you try to get rid of it.

Speciale is almost out, 458 is in it's 4th or what is probably a 5 year life. It's the super car of the day... until 6 months when the Gallardo gets delivered and crushes it, and 6 months later when the 458 replacement breaks cover, and 6 months later when the R8 breaks cover. The 458 was the super car of the day. You're about 4 years late on that one and haven't even taken delivery yet.

 

whats a 2012 with the update and 5500 miles worth?

170?

 

Depends on the total msrp the car had. Doubt even a low optioned car ($260-270k) can be bought retail at $170k right now.

It really is a shame that such an incredible car is tanking in value so soon like this.

 

I think that's true. The consensus definitely favors the 458. But the consensus is mainly a consensus of people who own neither.

I think most people who own both either slightly favor the Mac or call it even. I don't know any people who own both and outright favor the Ferrari. I'm sure there are some but the people I know who own/owned both seem to all favor the Mac. Personally I love both but I've come to the conclusion that I slightly favor the Mac for a few reasons: performance, transmission, chassis, suspension, and interior layout/quality/comfort.

But my point in contributing to the thread is to offset the bias I see here against the McLaren and give a more rounded and considered comparison of the two cars.

 

It isn't nice trying to scare people away from McLaren. McLaren isn't going anywhere. The McLaren group of companies been around for 50 years. They're well-funded, financially stable and have a 20 year history of taking care of their road cars going back to the F1 from 1993. They keep 50 year old race cars running as well.

 

That's a pretty big backtrack from the prior post where you said you could "get out of it for cost" - which, by the way, you probably won't be able to if you're still waiting for delivery. That might have been true 6 months ago but now 458 Spiders are no longer trading very much above list in the USA. Those days are gone and every month they're dropping more as more inventory comes into the system. That's not to say you'll lose a lot of money relative to the price of the car, if you sell it quickly with very low miles, but there's no point to buying the car if you're not going to drive it.

And when I say "relative to the price of the car", by my estimate, you should expect to lose at least $75k off MSRP on a 458 Spider 18 months from now - not counting tax and commission where applicable. In the grand scheme of things that's not a huge loss (25%) on a $300K+ car.

 

Yes I totally agree with you on this point and I hope I'm not coming off as too confrontational because that's not what I'm trying to do but rather keep it to facts and well-considered opinions. Happy Thanksgiving.

You're going to love your 458 Spider. It's a great car. I definitely love mine and when I say I favor the Mac, it is still a pretty slight difference. I certainly don't favor it enough to sell the 458 Spider which I expect to keep and one day trade on its replacement.

 

And you still are!

So did Google and Amazon when they were McLaren's Automotive's age and they lost money (a great deal more of it) for much longer than McLaren is expected to. McLaren already announced they expect to break even this coming year. This is how investment-backed companies get started. In addition their principle owners are extremely financially solid.

Which means next-to-nothing in terms of their finances. The Concorde agreement pretty-much guarantees McLaren profit from their racing operations regardless of where they finish on the podium. Same is true for Ferrari.

I disagree with your "shaky start" assessment or that they made too many cars. They had some growing pains but they've handled them extremely well. Remember all the 458s that caught on fire in the first year? Ferrari had a recall for that. None of that should be offered to discourage people from buying McLaren cars. Look at the amazing reviews of the P1. They're doing a great job these days. I think they're going to do some really impressive things over the next few years.

That's nonsense. McLaren has been around for 50 years and they built their first road car in 1993. They're still supporting it extremely well today. One visit to the McLaren Technology Center would rid you of this crazy notion that there's much risk in what they're doing.

That's really over-reaching. The same could be said of Apple and Google at one point in their development. In the meantime Ferrari is owned by Fiat who is fairly stable at the moment but hasn't always been. One could easily take the viewpoint that McLaren, as a smaller company backed by extremely well-funded owners, is more stable than a giant public industrial company like Fiat. It isn't without irony that their plan to become the 7th largest car company involves buying out a formerly-bankrupt US car company

Agreed.

 

McLaren is far more likely to be acquired then go bankrupt. They're already selling nearly as many cars as Lamborghini. They have a lot of experience and technology that is worth quite a bit believe it or not. After all, their first volume car wiped the floor with just about everything. Their brand also has a lot of value.

There are lots of buyers for McLaren assets if it ever came down to it.

Could a 12C be expensive/hard to service years from now? Maybe, but so are all out of production and out of warranty exotic cars. It's not like a 458 gearbox is going to be cheap 5 years from now.