McLaren Depreciation 12-C: a nightmare- werewolf?

How can you seriously compare a Fisker to a McLaren? One uses batteries and systems that probably no one understands and which are probably required for the car to even move, the other uses a very well understood ICE and components typical of any car.

I can find tons of shops that could work on a 12C and know exactly what they're doing. I wouldn't even know where to look to get new batteries for a Fisker or solve some sort of hybrid drivetrain issue.

 

EVO does run a long term 458 - it has now done over 40,000 miles and is the one used in the 3 way test 458/Scud/Speciale. It is used on a daily basis as a Supercar experience car and driven hard by hundreds of people - it is a regular in the long term test section of EVO.


Long term report:

Evo 190_3 Fast Fleet Ferrari 458 Italia - Evo




3 way test:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry_Ywh8I9-4[/ame]

 

Ferrari will never go to a carbon fibre monocoque for their V8 mid engined cars. Just explained few times, eventual little weight gain does not offset the cost and complexity of the necessary structural verification in case of accident.
For coupè the difference in torsional stiffness is negligible.
For the Limited edition is different.

Luque

 

These discussions are incredibly pointless.

The people who like the car keep defending it.

The people who don't like the car like to bash it.

And the people who actually want to discuss the subject and the economics and reasons involved are castigated.

 

That has nothing to do with that. They'll do it when it gets cheap enough to manufacture. Right now it would probably just reduce margins have negligible effect on sales.

 

I think the Alfa 4c has shown the way. If they can do it, it's going to be difficult for Ferrari to say they don't need to. The 4c chassis is made at a CF specialist in Naples.

My guess is the next car to replace the 458 will use a lot more CF panels and parts standard, as does the Corvette C7. The Corvette has the hood and removeable top in CF and the base price is $51K.

Kinda hard for Ferrari to ignore this as their competitors move to weight reduction.

My guess is the next car will be slightly smaller, lighter, and actually have less power but better numbers, fuel economy, and less pollution without using batteries.

 

GM should start making aftermarket CF parts for exotics as a side business.

 

I think you don't have updated informations about the subject.
Ferrari will continue to design cars with aluminum frame using different types of alloy and honing welded sections.
Actually it takes more ''know how'' to make a lightweight aluminum frame that and a carbon fibre ones.
(Try to weld stamped and forged aluminium parts together....)
Ferrari is still investing money on the subject.
The carbon fibre monocoque or tub are not planned for ''series'' production.
It will be easier to see carbon fiber control arms (now in forged aluminium) because unsprung weight reduction is a priority.

Luque

 

Bob,
Alfa Romeo used carbon fiber tube just because it is based on the original design by Dallara (that designed the KTM).
Design and produce an aluminium frame needed too much time for car's time to market.
Weight gain ?
Curb weight Alfa 4C tested in Quattroruote november 2013 issue = 1019 kg (2246 lbs).
A Lotus Exige 260S had curb weight well under 935 Kg (2060 lbs) with is Aluminium glued frame ....

Luque

 

Keith, what an incredible race! Makes me miss my short time in the SRF...never should have sold that car. Did you race nationals? You may know the SoCal SRF team ran by Mark and son in law Mike Miserendino who has won nationals before.
SRF's are demanding cars that require focus.
Sorry OT

I need to test drive a Mac.

 

How has this become a debate about 458 vs. McLaren.
I thought the title captioned and questioned the depreciation hit taken on the Mac.

The car is so much more deserving than this. Just goes to show how much a name / brand goes into play here.

 

Agreed. And agreed on the replacement. It will probably still use aluminum but more weight reduction will be ordered up.

 

Has Ferrari ever made a car that was smaller than the one it replaced?

YES. The F12 is smaller than the 599.

At some point you just can't keep going in the same direction and have to reverse course. If Ferrari is going to be around for another 10 years, it has to adapt or die. There is no use for a street car with 1000 HP when the speed limits are 70 mph and gas over $5 a gallon in the US.

If you guys want to make a bunch of garage queens, keep telling them they should be doing what they are doing.

 

There is no reason to own a Ferrari or any other super cars nearly anywhere on the planet. A super car is an emotional decision not bound by logic. Who cares how much gas is?

 

Any car maker with this kind of history is worth a lot of money to another car company.

McLaren:
The team is the second oldest active team (after Ferrari) and one of the most successful teams in Formula One, having won 182 races, 12 drivers' championships and 8 constructors' championships.

 

Governments. That's who.

Why do you think the new Chevy Stingray engine was given the green light? Because the engineering team said it could raise it's gas mileage and help the fleet.

Every government is going to put more and more restrictions on pollution and mileage. The Mac P1 can drive on full electric so it can go into London without penalties.

I agree consumers won't care. But, they won't have the chance to care.

 

The world today is not the world of the 1980's anymore. I bet the people of the early 70's said the same thing just when the muscle car era crashed because of increased fuel costs, government regulations, and drastic insurance cost increases. That 400 HP Corvette became an anemic 190 HP Corvette in a matter of a few years.

I think I'm not jaded at all. I'm one of the few realists of how the world works today.

I also believe the 12c is the future... lighter weight using new materials, better fuel economy using alternative engine enhancements with smaller and lighter displacement, and superior speed and handling.

Personally, I don't like the overall package so it's not for me. But, the method and thinking behind it is the future. Years from now, people will point to the 12c as the great grandaddy of modern super cars.