McLaren Depreciation 12-C: a nightmare- werewolf?

It's got the same problem IMO -- and even more so -- as the 458. It's a fast Camry without much soul. It's too digital when I want analog.

The seat of my pants cannot tell a car that goes 0-60 in 3.2 versus 3.9, so I could care less about that. I don't take them to drag strips so I don't care about 1/4 mile times. What I care is how it makes me feel when I drive it. Both these cars seem like a step towards the ordinary and less of a real racing machine.

Performance without feeling is just a waste of money.

The 458 was the only Ferrari I've ever owned that the more I drove it, the less I liked it. Having driven the 12c, I wouldn't even bother to buy it for the same reason.

 

Bob,

I'm afraid that I disagree with you on this point. I have almost 7,000 miles on my 12 coupe, so it's far from a garage queen. I enjoy the performance and use it as much as possible within the limits of sanity. To think that Ferrari will start making smaller, less HP cars across their model range seems unrealistic. They might add one, like they did with the dino, at the lower price range but other than that, the performance on the 458 replacement will increase to keep pace with Mac and Lambos. Just out of curiosity, how many miles did you have on your 458 coupe and then the 458 spider when you sold them? Do you think it's possible that you might have enjoyed each more if you had driven them more? I didn't really get comfortable with my coupe until I had over 1,200 miles on mine.

 

No.

But the coupe was better than the spider so maybe that has something to do with it.

The 12c though seemed to be even more of what I didn't like. I just have a problem with these all digital cars. It's like computer geeks have more to do with how a car feels today than a mechanic. The suspension in the 12c is a miracle of modern electronics -- and a complete bore at the same time.

 

Except I'm conducting my own long term test and you don't own either of them (yet). I'm more invested in both cars than any reviewers at EVO. I love them both

But, if I could have only one... it would probably be the Mac. Well, it would actually be the next Mac - the P1! Or maybe it would be the FF? I really love my FF. But I'm still excited to see what Ferrari has on the drawing board after the 458. Darn. I just can't only have one!

 

Bob, I have always liked your posts but I don't understand your positions on this matter.

I have owned a zillion Porsches, a 360, F430, 599 and now a 458. Each Ferrari is better than the last. My 458 is Ba**s to the wall. And I still could give a rats butt about gas mileage.

Are they too expensive? Yeah. Are they too fast? Yeah. That's what make them super cars.

If you don't like cars don't do them any more. Those of us who do will just keep wasting our money. There is always wine, women and song to keep you amused.

 

I think that's exactly what The Mayor said he's planning on doing.

 

Bingo

However, I still think that if they reversed course and made cars more like they did before that had more emotion and less of a "GT" feel, they would be even more appreciated today by more enthusiasts and there would be fewer garage queens, which is unfortunately more of a late 20th century/early 21st century phenomena.

I'm telling you guys something that you don't like to hear.

One of the reasons you see so many 458's and 12c's come back quickly on the market is... the jollies just aren't worth the money. They are bucket list cars and after you take your friends and family out in one basking in your wealth and good fortune, the glamour wears off and you say "been there, done that".

There isn't the love of driving and ownership like it used to be.

I posted this before. If you go back to the 70's to mid 80's, Dino's and F cars were so much different than the crap that was being made at that time. Twin cam high revving engines, race car handling, good direct steering, mid engine, exotic sounds, great handling.

Today that just isn't the case. F cars have gotten softer and even boring cars have pretty good power, brakes, and handling. The Mac is even softer thanks to its suspension and computer controls. The 458 came with a DCT. Volkswagon did it 3 years earlier.

The difference just isn't all that great. Hell you can go to your Audi dealer today and get a 10 cylinder high performance mid engine car on a lease. Just walk in and sign on the dotted line.

And you wonder why people are bored today?

 

That's why you should try a Scud or a Speciale! They are anything but boring! That's why I'm going to make the change. I don't need my Fcar to be a DD, heck in fact I'd rather it have a raw sensation that makes a short drive up the coast highway an "event".

 

Mayor, exotics nowadays are about looks, usability, and straight line speed. The attributes you seek don't exist on the roads upon which 99.99999% of mileage occurs. What you seek is of little interest to the majority of the market.

Buy them because you like to look at them, not because of what they can do. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, they all fetch groceries and run errands the same.

 

Boxster/Cayman S?

If he doesn't get a recent vintage Ferrari, a manual Porsche/Cayman S may be the car to consider for the Mayor. They are still fun to drive at any speed, and as mentioned above, they are very reliable.

(Personally, I plan to use a Porsche Cayman S for daily driver and get a 458 spider for the weekend drives and holidays)

 

What does "jaded" mean? If it means they used to make more interesting cars in the past, then I guess I'm jaded.

But, I'm not alone. I guess a lot of people are jaded.

I'm not broken hearted. I feel sorry for people who can't experience what a real sports car should be like or do for you. I wish they could experience something more than a super Camry for their 300 grand.

I feel sorry for the Xbox generation who feel that playing a video game is like what a car should feel like.

I also feel sorry for people who think porn is better than having sex. But, that's the way of the world today.

 

That's a pity. I guess you're right.

I should invest in a diaper company. Not because babies wear them anymore but because a lot of Ferrari owners will need them to wipe down their garage queens in the next 10 years before they become illegal to drive on the road without a permit.

 

I think the death of the rear engine 12 cylinder Ferraris is a better example.

Time was when 512's, Testarossas defined the limit and the V-8 cars were for sales volume.

No reason to imagine that the V-8 cars could not someday become a diminishing extreme to a new lighter and slower paradigm (which would then repeat the march to higher performance with each new model)

 

The Boxster S/Cayman S is a great car for the twisties. My 2011 was $70k.

458 Spider is the best car have ever driven/owned.

The risk of owning a 12C is enormous. If one believes the reward is worth the risk and you love the car, who am I to question your decision.

BTW future cars are going to be dictated by do-goodr governments. So if you like a car today you may want to buy it...no assurance that such cars will be built in the future. MPG and emissions will continue to drive what is ALLOWED to be built.

 

You can't make cars more interesting because roads and laws don't get more interesting. You can't even get into high revs on an F12 or 12C without worrying about getting a ticket. It's 3 seconds to 60, buy you're probably already going 20, so it's 2 seconds to 60, and the speed limit is at most 50. You decide to head for the highway, you slam on the gas, you hit 100 for an instant, then you slam the brakes just before every on ramp because there might be a cop and you'll get a really bad ticket/points for going 100. You go home and watch a YouTube video of a Ferrari on some amazing country road, then realize you live in the suburbs/city and the only time you can press the throttle is when you have beautiful concrete walls on each side of you.

My friend who delivers pizzas in a Ford Fusion probably has a higher average speed than most people on Fchat. Cops don't pull him over because he has a pizza thing on the top of his car.

I drive an exotic because it adds a level of individuality to a life where pretty much everything everywhere is quickly becoming the same. The performance has quickly become useless and irrelevant.

 

It depends on where you live.

We have a stretch of 4 lane road where the east bound lane is about 50 to 100 ft higher than the west bound lane. for about 5 miles you have nice stretch where you can go AS FAST AS YOU WANT providing there is not much traffic. 150 mph is fun for about 5 minutes, then it is back to the twisties with the top down which is really the fun for me.

LA. too may cars. too much traffic. too many cops.

Life is good.
Life is better driving a Ferrari in the twisties with little or no traffic.

Really.

 

No it's not. Even if it was high-risk, it doesn't matter because the stakes are low. High-risk, low stakes = low risk.

The price can only go to $0. Even if that did happen (and it won't) you'd be down another $150K.

If a $150K loss on your car is a big deal, you shouldn't even own one to begin with. What's the average net worth of a current-gen McLaren owner? $3m? $5m? What's the annual income? $300K? $500K?

I'd rather have $150K than not, but $150K loss on a car over 5-10 years is next to meaningless.

 

I agree. People who worry about derpreciation really cannot afford the car in the first place.

 

Phil, that's a good point. But, let's face it. Sometimes making that pile of cash was a long tough road strewn with a lot of sacrifice and sometimes heartache. It's not easy to see it just be thrown away out the window.

 

Phil, that's a good point. But, let's face it. Sometimes making that pile of cash was a long tough road strewn with a lot of sacrifice and sometimes heartache. It's not easy to see it just be thrown away out the window.

 

I got to tell you, this is the most depressing post I have read. Makes me want to run down to my Volvo dealer (lol). There are a number of canyons, as well as, highways without acess roads for miles, that permit a bit of excess. Generally speaking, it is true we have allot more car than road. Best