I think I'm done with Ferrari

I am complete agreement...I could not have said it better myself!

Ferrari of "Now" and what they offer I am completely uninterested... I find little resemblance of the Ferrari of today with the Ferrari of old. As a consequence I rarely purchase magazines showing the latest Ferraris (which before I always did) and rarely watch F1. Perhaps I am just getting old? Who knows, but for one thing I am disenchanted with Ferrari of today. Interestingly, it appears as if Ferrari is now rated as the most powerful brand:

Ferrari rated world's most powerful brand ahead of Apple - Autoblog

Perhaps this fact is now creating a level of arrogance that people are picking up on? Regardless, I am out as a future customer (for new Ferraris that is)

Cheers,

Sam

 

No it would need to look great too.

What if you could get a 458 body, witht he V12 from a f50/enzo/612. Stick, mild Ps like 997 Gt3, great seats, and loose a whole oot of the crap.

Wpould you buy one, I know I would.

 

I agree with all of this. But would add that the edgdy rawness, the feeling of piloting a machine is gone from the newer cars, and this essence of experience was a big part of ferrari too.

Currently i am assembling the bits for the ferrari that may make sense to me, namely a 512m motor swap into my boxer with some suspension tweeks. For the street that should cover all the bases.

For trackday fun there are so many better choices than a ferrari today.
Maybe that is part of the loss too. Speed today comes on twisty mountain roads or the track. A sportscar is something that excells in these enviroments. Ferraris are too anodyne at 8/10ths and below, which is where street speed is. And prohibitive to run on track and not the best on track. So besides showing off, what is a modern ferrari for, that is the esence of the issue.

I think what we are looking for is a 200-250k ferrari version of a Gt3 porche with stick and sublime motor. You know a 458 with no froills a V12 and a stick, a car for all time. Hell I would pay 350k or more for that. Ferrari already has all the bits.

Yes I would not sell to the cali crowd. But people buy ferrari partly because aficianados rate the "brand" so its good business to make acar for aficianados.

 

Agree with the gist of this but want to add that the Porsche are NOT great according to the owner's forums
I have toyed with selling one of my Dinos, cashing in and getting something modern. The 997.2 GT3 is definitely on my radar scope BUT when I started reading the forums three things really bother me:

- Coolant hose couplers from block to hose are short tubes that are epoxy glued into the engine and fail catastrophically. This is a crap way of engineering a coolant fitting because temp cycles will fatigue the epoxy glue

- Centerlock Wheels are prone to failure after TWO recalls. Conversion to 5 lug mounting hubs is a $10k mod

AND MOST ALARMING
- Owners report that Porsche treats their GT3 customers horribly. One track day voids any and all warranty and Porsche actively search for data to deny owners any work.

Contrast this with Audi forums where owners report stellar customer service to R8 owners;
- clutch and brake jobs that seemingly occur earlier than normal have seen owners complain resulting in all costs picked up by the dealer EN GRATIS
- Several 2009 R8 owners where this model did not have the shock tower reinforcement (added in 2010 MY) have seen their cars replaced with a NEW R8 V10 for free

... the list goes on.
I just wish the R8 had more of an edge to the driving experience but in response to the major concern in this thread about the Dealer network complaints, Audi really steps up to their high end customers

 

Modern cars have no "edge" anymore. It has been legislated away. New cars are too heavy with steel impact bars and multiple layers of soundproofing, heavy power robbing catalytic convertors, with too many airbags, and idiot box control of braking, suspension, engine revs and transmission. It's not possible to build a stripped down, edgy car modern car. It's simply not allowed anymore.
That's why the market for older cars, that were built before the regulation heavy era started, will always be in high demand and will always fetch a multiple of their original retail price

 

^ that car you speak of was built, in 1996, called the Viper.
the public spoke, we really want the current cars.
ed

 

oh please! what rubbish! you really believe a 250 TdF or 250SWB or 250GTO or 275GTB or 365GTB4 Daytona has an 'edge'? If you do then you've never driven one. They positively wallow in turns and bends compared to any 8-cylinder Ferrari beginning with the F355 so long as all electronic 'aids' are disabled. Even the Ferrari GT's from the 550 Maranellos through the F12 have an 'edge', with electronics disabled.

Two of my Ferraris - 575M and F355 berlinetta - and my Maserati Spyder all have more 'edge' - whatever you meant by that - than my old 1967 prototipi 365GTC ever thought of having. Which doesn't mean that I did not adore the GTC, she was as light and delightful as a ballerina on the road and on the track. But edge?

And if it's straight performance you mean, take a look at the figures:
250's 0-60mph: maybe 6.5-7 sec; top speed: 155mph
275GTB's: 0-60 = 6 sec, top = 160 mph
Daytonas: 0-60 = maybe 5.5 sec; top speed: 175mph
my F355: 0-60 = 4.6 sec; top speed 186mph
my 575M: 0-60 = 4.0 sec; top speed 201mph
even my Maserati Spyder: 0-60 4.8 sec, top speed: 176mph

edge? oh please!

 

Rubbish? How would know know what I perceive as "edge"? You can opine as much as want as to your experiences with whatever cars you care to name, but please do me and everyone a favor by not trying to impose your opinion as a fact on anyone else.

For the record, I have been around cars for several decades and have had the good fortune to experience cars as diverse as a 250GTO on track as well as much lesser cars.
Of course they wallow around and have awful brakes and lunky transmissions compared to modern cars. They have unbolstered seats and they stink of fuel and oil but they have character, once again IMVHO.
Modern cars are extremely competent, tight and fast and generally can go for ever with minimal maintenance. BFD.
I like old cars. I like their imperfections, their edge.

 

I wonder if the brass at Maranello secretly agree that their products are trending soulless. But they've painted themselves into a corner with all the high tech crap. They're stuck.

Us purists are a tiny fraction of Ferrari's potential market. They don't care about us.
Forgive my repeating the idea of tweaking and modding the older stuff but to me it's a valid alternative.

 

That price is absolutely obscene for that car. That Marque does not justify a 200k premium.

 

I guess the all CF construction and essentially Ferrari engineering under that CF bodywork is what makes it pricey.
It's a hellava car. A friend has one and it is sweet!

 

I seriously doubt it.

I haven't read any motoring journalists saying that the 458 or the F12 are soulless, and the 458 Speciale is currently being raved about by many of them as being one of the all time greats!

Let Me ask you a question:

When you're watching TV, do you still get up off your sofa, walk over to the TV set and change the channel by pressing a button on the TV itself? - I bet you don't!

Why don't you? - Because of a thing called "progress".

Along with everyone else, you've discovered that it's quicker, easier and more efficient to change channels by pressing a button on your remote control.

Ferrari have to move with the times and the Playstation generation are not interested in doing the equivalent of getting off the sofa to change channels on a TV, by having to shift an antiquated steel lever whilst pressing down a clutch pedal in order to change gear! - They want to simply flick a paddle whilst flooring the throttle pedal, just like they do on their Playstation games.

Like it or not, the "purists" are the past! - The Playstation generation are the future!


I've posted this before, but for the "purists" out there, this is a classic clip of progress in action!:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSINO6MKtco]GRAMMOPHONE - Rowan Atkinson - Not The Nine o'Clock News - YouTube[/ame]

 

Phil,

We are also close to being able to program your car and it will take you to your destination. I am sure that you will look great getting out of your Ferrari that drove you there. I personally would rather have the fun of being part of actually driving the car myself. Enjoy your progress!

 

OK Phillomena-

F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport, yes? This is the playground that the Scuderia inhabits and that is funded largely by those who buy the road cars from Maranello. Other funding comes from Eccelstone and his cronies in the form of "appearance fees". Driver aid crutches have thankfully been banned from F1 (save for launch control, which is for sissies who have a lack of right foot coordination). BTW Lotus (easily on par with Ferrari) gets no appearance money. Explain that. I can't. F1 looks like a corrupt racket to me. See Flavio Briattore. Eccelstone will probably be convicted of racketeering and will be gone. This is good.

So are we saying that sitting in a cockpit riding in a computer-controlled car is some kind of achievement? Sounds like a video game. If this is the state of Motorsport and state of the art in road cars it's a jerk off.

Hemingway (a real man, Google him boys) said:
"There are only three real sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting and Motorsport. All the rest are games."
Of course this was from an era long gone. Unless you've studied your history.
Fear of death in the car with you. Risking your life to win. This boys, is commitment.

Playing a real life video game in a sanitized car surrounded by fawning yes men is something completely unrelated.

 

Real men don't kill animals for sport, especially ones that are drugged beforehand to give an animal that hasn't chosen to fight even less advantage.

If Hemingway honestly thought bullfighting was a 'sport' then I'm glad his legacy was so fleeting that many would have to google him.

 

Different times. Just like race drivers of the 30's through 70's lived their lives differently than they do today. We used to view life as cheap. Now, it's very expensive. Dying in a race car was common and was looked on as gallant. Risking your life in a race car was heroic. Today we think of dying in a race car as rare and the attitudes or earlier drivers and organizers towards safety as foolish.

You can't blame Hemmingway for living in his time anymore than someone 60 years from now blaming you for living in yours.

 

I wonder if anyone can pinpoint the date that Ferrari made the decision to add the California to line-up instead of building the new Dino?

It was years ago, but I still remember that day...For me, it was the day that Ferrari turned a corner to luxury front engine GT cars, and left the idea of a smaller, simpler, minimalist, pure sports cars for someone else to build.

Honda tried and failed with the replacement for the NSX... the HSC never got the green light. Lotus tried to build the car but it was too small to get in and out of unless you had the roof off.

I moved over to Porsche for the first time as I thought the Cayman was the closest thing I could find for a small, nimble car, that could thrill at everyday road speeds, and be reliable for a daily driver and weekend get-a-way car. Its funny, because I had never been a Porsche fan until Ferrari choose the California over the Dino .... sent me looking for a modern interpretation of the 308 or Dino, and the 987 Cayman had just the right balance of classic sports car feel and modern daily drive-ability. I'm still waiting for Ferrari to bring back the Dino concept and stop competing with Maserati for GT size front engine cars (The 458 is a great car but paying over $200k for a performance envelope that I can't use on the street seems like over kill for what I'm actually looking for- fun, feel, and driver involvement)
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Traded my 1988.5 328GTS w/15,000 miles for a 2011 Maserati Grantourismo. Ferrari engine 4.7L 460 hp. Whew.
Big change from the Ferrari. A functional rear seat, but I miss it. It's like a child I gave up for adoption and wish I had it back!!
Ferrari's are a driving experience. There really is no other car like it. And the reason we all pay for them, cause they're worth it.
The sound of the engine should bring you back in the near future.
There is no other car with that sound quite like it.

 

Have you heard a 3.5 or 3.7 Infiniti or a Nissan Z car lately. They have done a great job at replicating the sound of a modern V8 Ferrari engine

 

Not so much a Ferrari engine but I do agree, they have done a good job in creating more of a sporty or racing engine sound. I do like the way the Z and Infinity sounds.

 

I think it was when they finally decided that Maserati and Ferrari should not compete. Maserati would stop making 2 seaters (unfortunately for me as I have one) and would concentrate on 4 seater GT's while Ferrari would concentrate more on 2 seaters and performance 2 plus 2's. The California would move over to Ferrari as it's new entry level car. Maserati would concentrate on the Granturismo, which I think we all would admit is a real beauty inside and out.

Now, as you can see, Maserati is making their first 5 series fighter in the Ghibli. They will sell these outside of Ferrari dealers at what will be, we assume, new Alfa/Maserati dealers. That decision obviously was some time ago as they did a complete redesign of the Quattroporte and it's cost reduced little brother, the Ghibli. Both use Ferrari built and designed engines. Next year, Maserati will introduce the first Italian SUV since Lambo did it. It will have some Jeep parts/technology and a Ferrari built engine. It's about time IMO. SUV's are some of BMW's and Porsche's best sellers.

At that point, there was no need for the Dino brand being sold outside of Ferrari dealers. If anything, Alfa could be that Dino (and you would have to say the Alfa 4 C is very Dino-like in what it's intention is). By making the 4C an Alfa, it allows them a halo car for a completely new Alfa line up of rear wheel cars that are coming.

There is a strategy to their mess. It's just hard to figure out sometimes.

The photo below is the new "Dino". And, like the original, it is not perfect either. It's just small, simple, pretty, inexpensive compared to it's big Ferrari brothers by using other common mass produced parts, and very Italian.

People wain all the time about "the Dino". Well, to be honest, in it's time it wasn't such a great car compared to the 911. It had a lot of problems and wasn't faster. But it was sexier.

Move forward 40 years and you can say the same about the 4c and the Cayman. Yet, I'd take the 4c any day over the Cayman just on looks alone.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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that license plate placement looks AWFUL!

car looks great tho.

 

Yah. I agree. But the front plate on a 458 is nothing to shout about either.

 

What front license plate?
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I think the OP's brought up some very interesting points which actually make people like me who are driving much less expensive cars than he is (575m in my case), think twice :

Seatbelt rattles and creaking seats when pushed to the back - I always thought that the new models wouldn't have that. I'm very poor at arty things but even I can tell that the stitching above the glovebox isn't really straight.

I've driven about 1500 miles in 3 years and my seat looks like it's done 100,000 miles - again it's good to know that the newer cars costing 5 times as much have the same issues.

I pay about £2500 a year insurance but one accident costing £4500 will bump it to over £8000 a year, according to the insurance websites.

As for dings on the car, I'd parked up at a car park and a 10/12 year old kid opened his family's car's door and contact was made - the dad came out and was so angry and rough that I thought he was going to hit the kid so I just let it go.....but I did say to myself that maybe I'm not really rich enough to be a Ferrari owner.

Looking at the feelings of the OP re dings etc., it reminds me that just because of having more wealth, it doesn't mean that things that bug us miraculously go away and we won't care.